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Re: Persistent Trich Outbreaks in Large(ish) Grow [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25752749 -

Hey Bod, any other spots you can suggest for potential spawn improvement? Would love to try anything I can to get cleaner spawn.

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Re: Persistent Trich Outbreaks in Large(ish) Grow [Re: Sonoluminescent]
    #25752761 -

Post your agar before inoculation


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🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼    🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿

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Re: Persistent Trich Outbreaks in Large(ish) Grow [Re: JHOVA]
    #25752770 -

JHOVA said:
Post your agar before inoculation


☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝


Do you have any fruits rn or active mycelium.


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"pain is the only way we can all be equal"- a dude
"If we all stopped focusing on feelings and just faced facts maybe we'd be at fucking mars already"-the dude with a beard
"Because democracy basically means, governemnt by the people of the people  for the people. But the people are retarded."- Indian dude with beard

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Re: Persistent Trich Outbreaks in Large(ish) Grow [Re: Sklaytz]
    #25757307 -

Hey, no fruits currently. I've got a few colonized tubs but they're probably too busy fighting trich to fruit. Some haven't shown symptoms yet, but I'm certain they're all lost.

Here's the one I was hoping survived the outbreak. As you can see, today it showed otherwise:


Here's another tub, which seemed to dry out weirdly fast. I have had to rehydrate it to get it to finish colonizing.


Close-up:



And here are some of my current plates. I've been having difficulties isolating a solid rhizomoprhic strain. Even after 5 transfers, seeing very little sectoring and a lot of fuzz. Even clones have been showing up weird, and that usually works well for me. So perhaps there is some hidden trich on these plates fucking with them.

I would normally have done another transfer before this point but I've become discouraged lately and not working on it as much as I should.


This clone just got weird. None of the usual rhizomorphic strands I'm used to from early-fruiting clones.


3rd example of isolation attempts

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Re: Persistent Trich Outbreaks in Large(ish) Grow [Re: Sonoluminescent]
    #27335847 -

Did you ever figure this out? I'm in the same boat, nothing but trich, all the time.
I just can't see how it's my spawn... I've left jars to colonize for weeks, and never a spot of green until spawning to bulk, and close to first flush. I've lost 90% of my grows for the past year, and it's really starting to get to me.

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Re: Persistent Trich Outbreaks in Large(ish) Grow [Re: aghabheegy]
    #27335944 -

aghabheegy said:
Did you ever figure this out? I'm in the same boat, nothing but trich, all the time.
I just can't see how it's my spawn... I've left jars to colonize for weeks, and never a spot of green until spawning to bulk, and close to first flush. I've lost 90% of my grows for the past year, and it's really starting to get to me.


It's interesting. During thw whole year I also notice that it fails only when you spawn to bulk but if you don't jars / bags stay calm with no green forever.
I read that bulk colonization is costs a lot of energy for mycelium compared to grain colonization (Although intuitively I thought that the other way around). So possibly that is the reason why it hits on bulk stage while sleeping before? I mean the contam ride with the grow all the way but activates on that stage.

I guess my /deadly/ systematic problem with trich occured with switch to larger scale grows. I'm doing mostly pan cyans and catch my self on two noob mistakes that possibly the solution. First of all I don't vent air from pressure canner ever (do you?). It's a huge thing in terms of proper sterilization and the necessity of it amplifies if you go larger in volumes. Second is that manure/verm pasteurization of 4L bags is not the same as for smaller bags. I mean speed of substrate core heating is very slow for big volume, so I starting to measure the core temps instead of water temps which may be not relevant. Since that it takes more time - the temperature of the water and the middle aligns in about an hour. You risk to not properly treat part of the substrate.

I guess both things have mutual thing - lack of heat in the core of substrate for enough time. Now I'm running the project with all this things doing properly and will let you know the results in a 3-5 days.

Have a strong feeling that necessity of venting before the sterilization and volume depending of thermal processing is vastly missing in common discourse. We hear - run 15psi for 2 hours and you good, but there are some nuances hidden


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Ecuador on bloody coir
Panaeolus Cyanescence Jamaica

Edited by gt40 (06/05/21 03:55 AM)

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Re: Persistent Trich Outbreaks in Large(ish) Grow [Re: gt40]
    #27335946 -

All of these points are ultimately pointless, your spawn is the problem.
Revisit your agar and clean techniques.

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Re: Persistent Trich Outbreaks in Large(ish) Grow [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27335948 -

Proper sterilization is foundation of clean technique. No need to mislead people with template phrases

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Re: Persistent Trich Outbreaks in Large(ish) Grow [Re: gt40]
    #27335950 -

Surely you're not talking to me?
I won't even debate this, check your spawn and sterile techniques associated with creating it from your agar to grain.

If you struggle to find fault in your own abilities then that is your first failure.
When I started to get trich I didn't look for every possible reason it could occur, I simply revisited my techniques and started again with clean cultures on agar, wow magically I no longer had bacterial substrates.

Edited by DERRAYLD (06/05/21 04:25 AM)

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Re: Persistent Trich Outbreaks in Large(ish) Grow [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27335951 -

Gt40 - the things you mentioned are considered a part of your clean techniques, all of which can contribute to spawn problems.
By revisiting your techniques you've proven you had issues, you can't revisit agar if you don't even have the fundamentals of using a pc figured out

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Re: Persistent Trich Outbreaks in Large(ish) Grow [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27335957 -

Man, it's obvious and I agree for sure. But there are cases when simplicity of "revisit you agar" just don't work.
I did a ton of agar work during the year, transfer to LC then tested LC on dishes again - clean for the most of the time.

I bet that this air vent thing may be initial case since agar sterilization (but more more likely grain - as hardest thing for steam penetration). That's why I suggest to check that thing.

Generally it's same advice as go and check you clean procedure but in specified form :smile:


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Ecuador on bloody coir
Panaeolus Cyanescence Jamaica

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Re: Persistent Trich Outbreaks in Large(ish) Grow [Re: gt40]
    #27335965 -

Okay apologies if I went on the defensive,  I guess I worded it a bit simply but I meant to always revisit your clean processes wherever possible but ultimately the spawn is still the issue regardless, bad pc work results in spawn issues, bad agar... spawn problems.
I'm sure you get where I'm going with this.

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Re: Persistent Trich Outbreaks in Large(ish) Grow [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27335967 -

Yeah, thank you


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Ecuador on bloody coir
Panaeolus Cyanescence Jamaica

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Re: Persistent Trich Outbreaks in Large(ish) Grow [Re: gt40]
    #27335983 -

gt40 said:
Man, it's obvious and I agree for sure. But there are cases when simplicity of "revisit you agar" just don't work.
I did a ton of agar work during the year, transfer to LC then tested LC on dishes again - clean for the most of the time.

I bet that this air vent thing may be initial case since agar sterilization (but more more likely grain - as hardest thing for steam penetration). That's why I suggest to check that thing.

Generally it's same advice as go and check you clean procedure but in specified form :smile:


Mold dies well before sterilization temperature. Even if you completely royally fucked up sterilization green mold wouldn't be your problem.

Green mold is a cultivator error and skill deficiency not sterilization problems or environment


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Re: Persistent Trich Outbreaks in Large(ish) Grow [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27336394 -

I appreciate all the input. I'm 100% ok with admitting I'm the problem... I just can't see where I'm fucking up since my plates stay clean, my jars stay clean, etc.

Yes, I properly vent my PC. I have a 2x4 laminar flow cabinet (from a lab) in front of which I perform all work. I us d to have an SAB, and had decent success there, but if I fucked up, it was obvious: plates would go green, jars would go green etc. Since I've had the flow hood, I have tested it both with just agar (no streaking / anything, just agar plate open in front of hood for 20 minutes, seal plate, wait for weeks, no growth), with grain (same thing, no spores or anything z just open a jar of sterilized grain in front of hood for 20 minutes, close it up, shake it around, wait for a few weeks, no contams), and also with inoculated mediums (grain in jars, agar), left to colonize, no green (though often slow colonization times).

Only thing I can think of is that my mycelium is weak / carrying bacteria / not colonizing fast enough, so when I spawn it to bulk (I use BOD's coir bucket tek exactly) it can't fight the bacteria and the trich at the same time.

I'm going to go back to the beginning, start with a streaked plate, and isolate a pure, strong culture, then fruit it and see what happens.

Can anyone confirm my thinking here? Are you saying that even though I never see the green in my jars / agar, that it's hiding there and not sporulating until I spawn to bulk?

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Re: Persistent Trich Outbreaks in Large(ish) Grow [Re: aghabheegy]
    #27337794 -

aghabheegy said:
I appreciate all the input. I'm 100% ok with admitting I'm the problem... I just can't see where I'm fucking up since my plates stay clean, my jars stay clean, etc.

Yes, I properly vent my PC. I have a 2x4 laminar flow cabinet (from a lab) in front of which I perform all work. I us d to have an SAB, and had decent success there, but if I fucked up, it was obvious: plates would go green, jars would go green etc. Since I've had the flow hood, I have tested it both with just agar (no streaking / anything, just agar plate open in front of hood for 20 minutes, seal plate, wait for weeks, no growth), with grain (same thing, no spores or anything z just open a jar of sterilized grain in front of hood for 20 minutes, close it up, shake it around, wait for a few weeks, no contams), and also with inoculated mediums (grain in jars, agar), left to colonize, no green (though often slow colonization times).

Only thing I can think of is that my mycelium is weak / carrying bacteria / not colonizing fast enough, so when I spawn it to bulk (I use BOD's coir bucket tek exactly) it can't fight the bacteria and the trich at the same time.

I'm going to go back to the beginning, start with a streaked plate, and isolate a pure, strong culture, then fruit it and see what happens.

Can anyone confirm my thinking here? Are you saying that even though I never see the green in my jars / agar, that it's hiding there and not sporulating until I spawn to bulk?


Got the samу problem as I told before and it's hard to figure out. What you can do maybe just to release tension from whole process and get fruits is to run it straight from the grain. Not the solution for a whole thing for sure, just option and maybe temporaly approach.

Cubes start from grain simply and in this case you don't need thick layer as you do with bulk because grain is super food itself. So you don't need as much grain to compensate absense of bulk
+ grain gives several flushes


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Ecuador on bloody coir
Panaeolus Cyanescence Jamaica

Edited by gt40 (06/06/21 04:48 PM)

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Re: Persistent Trich Outbreaks in Large(ish) Grow [Re: gt40]
    #27337900 -

I bet it's your case that is introducing the Trich. WBS after colonization will win the war with Trich if given the chance normally by just removing it and spawning with a high spawn to bulk ratio. The bottom line is you should be able to get good results with only WBS spawn, coir, and water. Both the spawn and coir should be highly resistant to contamination. Years ago I added used coffee grounds and it completely ruined my setup. You can fruit with 100% WBS spawn, but I bet you know the yield per weight of the spawn will be low. Maybe just don't overthink things.

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