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Offlineninjaneo
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Registered: 10/06/09
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Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: Hippie3]
    #12098169 - 02/25/10 08:15 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


btw, i know this idea isn't original, but i'm wondering why it's recieved so little attention. i found a few posts like from 2 years ago mentioning its' use but seems like everyone just sez 'toss it out' instead of listening to what the guy was saying.





Yeah, I agree, this sounds very interesting, and worth a shot... I've been IRC'ing for weeks and the only "option" presented there has been "throw it out".

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OfflineHofmann1943
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Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: ninjaneo]
    #12101801 - 02/26/10 12:28 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

so  what you just put salt on the trichoderma or what?
what salt? Sea salt or something else???


--------------------
By Albert Hofmann :
Been cautious man, I though I would start with a smallest, smallest quantity. Namely I started with 0.25mg.....and my intention was to increase dosage to see if something will happened.
That very small dosage, the first dose of my experiments i planed, was very very strong.

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OfflineHofmann1943
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Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: Hofmann1943]
    #12102077 - 02/26/10 01:11 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

sorry didn't see there's 4 pages
salt hey I give it a try, have some sea salt right here and some trich also :smile:


--------------------
By Albert Hofmann :
Been cautious man, I though I would start with a smallest, smallest quantity. Namely I started with 0.25mg.....and my intention was to increase dosage to see if something will happened.
That very small dosage, the first dose of my experiments i planed, was very very strong.

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InvisibleBlueDruid
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Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 811
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: Hofmann1943]
    #13951786 - 02/12/11 03:03 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I see an interesting early post
Quote:


Whiterasta said:

I simply case with 50/50 peat/cat litter w/baking soda(I rinse the litter clear then add peat)since going to this formula I have NO trich what-so-ever :wink:
PS the litter is made by Oil-Dri corp(google it baby!) and is a Si/Ca, w/trace Mg expanded clay with NaHCO2.I wash till clear and add Ascorbic acid till Ph7 and then mix with peat moss.IMHO it is the Sodium which inhibits trich which is why it seems the Sodium Ascorbate works so well.
PS this also seems to inhibit bluing in the fruits.WR




Baking soda is Sodium Bicarbonate, table salt Sodium Chloride. Is there a particular proprty of sodium (in different forms) to inhibit or kill off trich.
Has anyone else used any forms of sodium as an additive to bulk grows to discourage Trich? It doesn't sound like table salt would work for this as it'd kill off the mycellium but I'm interested in the feasability of using other forms of sodium to discourage Trich growth.

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Offline3n1gm4
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Registered: 01/13/11
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Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: BlueDruid]
    #14084032 - 03/07/11 10:09 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Hope I never have to try it.


--------------------
http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-CalculatorLOL when you zoom in to try to read my sig pics you will get lost in the crystal forrest of ghanni!

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Offlinemaitai
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Registered: 11/02/10
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Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: 3n1gm4]
    #14311114 - 04/18/11 09:39 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Hello all... I am a newb at this so forgive me if this is a stupid question. I read the entire thread because so far 4/6 of my pf tek BRF jars have got green in them (about 2 weeks after inoculation). This is quite disheartening for me. I'd like to be able to save them if I can but is the salt tek purely for cakes AFTER they have been birthed?

From my understanding I can't "cut away" the moldy parts while they are still in the jar, so they would have to be birthed and then cut out, and then... do I put them back into the jars?? Or just try to fruit them as-is?

Thank you all...

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: maitai]
    #14313864 - 04/18/11 09:02 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

You can't cut away mold, and it does little good to salt it unless you're within a day or so of harvest.  Even then, I wouldn't.

If your jars are contaminated 2 weeks after inoculation, check your sterile procedure as far as wiping down with alcohol, use of glovebox, flame sterilize the needle until red hot, etc.

RIP to the original poster.  It seems strange to see the name hippie3 pop on screen again.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Offline3n1gm4
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Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14316220 - 04/19/11 09:15 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
You can't cut away mold, and it does little good to salt it unless you're within a day or so of harvest.  Even then, I wouldn't.

If your jars are contaminated 2 weeks after inoculation, check your sterile procedure as far as wiping down with alcohol, use of glovebox, flame sterilize the needle until red hot, etc.

RIP to the original poster.  It seems strange to see the name hippie3 pop on screen again.
RR



If you have seen trich before and know what it looks like in its dormant state before it turns green, is it possible to cut it away before it spreads or releases spores and then salt the wound?


--------------------
http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-CalculatorLOL when you zoom in to try to read my sig pics you will get lost in the crystal forrest of ghanni!

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OfflineHofmann1943
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Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: 3n1gm4]
    #14321648 - 04/20/11 06:17 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

this could work.


--------------------
By Albert Hofmann :
Been cautious man, I though I would start with a smallest, smallest quantity. Namely I started with 0.25mg.....and my intention was to increase dosage to see if something will happened.
That very small dosage, the first dose of my experiments i planed, was very very strong.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: montycantsin]
    #14322986 - 04/20/11 01:11 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

montycantsin said:
Pulled the sub out to harvest the mutant side blobWonder s, (hurray PE!) that were my first flush and on the top, which was resting on the bottom of the bucket as I flipped it to accommodate the side pinning, was thriving with trich. Still more pins and blobs growing. Wonder how much longer my mycelium will last.


In the end, I didn't kill trich, but I deterred it enough to get a small harvest. Somethin's better than nothing, no?




And you disappeared two weeks later, never to be heard from again.  Undoubtedly all those trich spores ruined your place for ever growing again. 

Boys and girls, this is EXACTLY why one should toss out contaminated substrates on sight.  Don't try to cut the mold out, don't salt it don't do anything but get it outside if you ever plan on growing in that house again.  There may be trich spores in the air everywhere, but not in the huge quantities you'll get from leaving a trich infested substrate indoors.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Offlinememberjockey
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Registered: 11/07/11
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Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #15568291 - 12/24/11 07:36 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Can you give the tub some fresh air to keep it from getting contaminated if you think it may be too wet?  also does this look like it's infected too?


--------------------

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OfflineHofmann1943
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Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: memberjockey]
    #15797270 - 02/12/12 12:09 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

memberjockey said:
Can you give the tub some fresh air to keep it from getting contaminated if you think it may be too wet?  also does this look like it's infected too?




Highjacker :smile:

yes and yes


--------------------
By Albert Hofmann :
Been cautious man, I though I would start with a smallest, smallest quantity. Namely I started with 0.25mg.....and my intention was to increase dosage to see if something will happened.
That very small dosage, the first dose of my experiments i planed, was very very strong.

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Offlinepigshit
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/12
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Last seen: 12 years, 9 days
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hofmann1943]
    #15861680 - 02/25/12 12:41 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

So thers no cuming back from trIch

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OfflineBurleyPsila
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Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #20830271 - 11/13/14 03:07 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Is this post still alive? Guessing if someone replies... We may have a new trichoderma elimination breakthrough!!
I am having a lil bit of trouble..

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Offlinetokeweed420
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Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: BurleyPsila]
    #20832198 - 11/13/14 01:43 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

u have a better chance of finding the cure for aids :chalkup:


--------------------
:volcano:  :volcano2:

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OfflineBurleyPsila
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Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: tokeweed420]
    #20844028 - 11/16/14 04:23 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

tokeweed420 said:
u have a better chance of finding the cure for aids :chalkup:




Hah! good one..

Have you had any experience on eliminating trich?

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InvisibleTheEaglesGift
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Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 10,554
Loc: Ixtlan, Mexico
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Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: BurleyPsila]
    #20848733 - 11/17/14 01:07 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

You're better off focusing your energies into PREVENTION.

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OfflineMQover
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Registered: 08/28/18
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Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #25419490 - 08/28/18 03:17 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Hello,

How do you use salt to fight trichoderma? What should be the amount of salt (g) in 1 liter of water to make the concentration safe for mycelium, but destroy trichoderma?

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OfflineWing
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Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: MQover]
    #25422354 - 08/29/18 07:24 PM (5 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MQover said:
Hello,

How do you use salt to fight trichoderma? What should be the amount of salt (g) in 1 liter of water to make the concentration safe for mycelium, but destroy trichoderma?




You dont use salt. It doesn't work. The only way to get rid of Trich from your grow is to throw it in the trash outside


--------------------
My Old Grow Logs


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OfflineShroomin4u
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Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: Wing]
    #27723057 - 04/06/22 09:40 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

All of human history would heavily disagree with you. Sodium and Phosphate groups are excellent preserves.

Salt sucks the water contents out of cells and restricts enzymatic activity. Humans and mammals evolved the organ {kidney} to deal with as they use salt for many biological processes. Even with that evolution we still struggle to withstand the effects of salt and preservatives in our systems.

(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3582990/)
(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3278747/)

We are also different from fungi in that we have internal digestive tracks and not external ones.

I myself have researched and studied the process of growing oyster mushrooms in extremely salinized water with high nutrient contents. Even using commercial preservatives. It grows slower (sometimes barely and sometimes significantly; depends on the preserv), but without any containments. This is no surprise since fungus was the first species to migrate from the the sea to the earth. In fact they might have been the ones to create dirt in the first place.

Hydrogen peroxide for example easily destroys Trichoderma spores at low concentration without effecting mycelia networks (including mature trich colonies so be aware)

You can't cut out a trich infection because they're parasitic and high nutrient opportunistic (they're used to getting heavy nutrient loads from host plants.)

(https://biocontrol.entomology.cornell.edu/pathogens/trichoderma.php)

Meaning they wrap around and starve the mycelium they've infected.

However mycelium are taken from nature: oyster, lions, cube, etc. have all been exposed to live trich for millions if not billions of years. They have immune systems. They grow natural exposed to more containments than you could imagine.

All you need to do is to reduce the payload of the trich to a manageable level for the mushrooms. Meaning you need to deliver agents that can damage that trich without effecting the host. AKA salt.

(I'm not a molecular biologist so I have no clue why trich can't withstand salt and oyster, cube, lions, etc. can. They just can.)

Trich is not a decomposer, it's naturally found protecting and growing in/on plant roots. It needs high levels of nutrients or/from a root network to survive. That's almost the exact opposite environment you find oysters, cube, etc.

Deprive the trich of it's favored environment and nutrients. Provide your host decomposer high levels of cellulose and lignin. Things the trich can't eat for metabolism. And let that serve as a energy pool for immune responses. Once you've cultivated that host organism to a sufficient size for it's immune system to handle trich expose it to levels of nutrients (maybe even a salt bath with those nutrients)

I'm sick and tired of people trying to be poser scientists.

YOU DON'T HAVE THE SAME RESOUCRES OR EQUIPMENT!

Instead of just slapping a boat load of nutrients down your mycelium's throat actually take a second to think about the environment or niche it's evolved for. How can you best replicate that and provide additional support for it?

My own substrates consist of low nutrient density materials like wood chips and cardboard. Slightly soaked with salt.

Stuffing these grains and sugars down the mycelium's throat is akin to how the meat industry pumps its cattle with hormones. It's just a unnatural solution that only the big boys with all this funding and equipment can afford to do.

These simple nutrients like malt, fructose, and grain starches are almost the exact environment that contams like trich love. Nothing can decompose complex nutrients like decomposers (oysters, etc.) even bordering on breaking down hydro carbons like oil. Why would you throw away those amazing enzymes for a faster pay off?

Fungi like yeast I can understand. They have a amazing ability to just completely rip apart their competition. Even partnering with tasty bacteria in sour doughs. But oyster? It's a couple hundred thousand years to young to expect to perform like that.


--------------------
Those who act like they know all, know nothing.

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