Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

Magic-Mushrooms-Shop.com
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold * 1
    #1304120 -

wanted to share a recent thread i started at mycotopia.
============================================================
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Hippie3 (Admin) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 04:33 pm: Edit

recently i read about how some commercial edible mushroom growers battle trich and the article mentioned that they often use ordinary table salt to inhibit growth of trich.
having battled trich at great lengths over several years, i was intrigued enough to give it a try.
i'm pleased to report that so far it appears that ordinary table salt is very effective.

i've used it 5 times so far, all on casings.
first i cut out the trich areas, making sure i got it all by cutting well outside the visible growth area.
then i misted it all down good with bleachwater to kill the mold spores left on the casing surface.
next, i poured table salt into the wound left from the surgury, using quite alot of salt so all exposed surfaces were totally covered. thus i nearly filled the hole and the sides of the wound.

after several days of close observation, the casings survived and seem healthy with no sign of any return of trich.

this seems to be well worth further investigation.
i'd suggest to any interested,
the next time you run into trich,
give this 'salt tek' a try.
i can't guarantee it will save massively contam'd casings,
but if you catch it early then this method shows great promise, as my experience up until now is that most generally trich quickly returns even after surgury and bleaching.
the added measure of salting the wound seems to rectify that problem nicely.
it'd be great if others could attempt to replicate and verify my admitted limited observations to date.


By DigitalHippie (Psilocin420) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 04:40 pm: Edit


very interesting...

By Max Power (Babooscha) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 04:49 pm: Edit


....wont the salt eat up your water supply? and in battling trich.....could we use a saline solution in the substrate?

By Hippie3 (Admin) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 04:57 pm: Edit


well, those are all what you call 'experimental questions'.
that is to say, we won't know the answers without performing more experiments.
i'm contemplating attempting to pin down what kind of concentration of salt the cubie mycellia can tolerate, as i have no real idea at this point.
the idea occurs to me that it might, stress might, be possible to use a bit of salt in the misting water, perhaps with the bleach.
and the lime.
who knows the chemical interplay ?
but i'm pretty sure there's a definite limit to how much salt the mycellia can tolerate, and salt does accumulate in the soil/casing over time, so careful experimentation is required before risking wholesale use of salt on your crop.
salt is well know throughout history as being very effective at preventing spoilage, they packed meat in salt long before refridgerators were ever invented.

By Spindle (Spindle) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 06:50 pm: Edit


"Homer, did you have to pick my flowers?"

"Of course I did"

"Well... did you have to pour salt on the ground so that nothing could ever grow again?"

"Hehe.... yeah"

This is certainly interesting, and it does make sense. Did you notice if any mycelium regrew over the treated area?

I would think not... I'm thinking the salt is just good at killing the mold spores so that it creates a "dead field" and doesn't allow any new regrowth. Whereas a bleach spray would kill a lot of the mold, but not all of it, and once the bleach cleared up, the mold was allow to reoccupy the treated area.

Does that seem about right to you Hippie?

By Hippie3 (Admin) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 06:57 pm: Edit


agreed, i see no sign of the mycellia colonizing into the salt, it's barren in that area. but it hasn't killed the adjacent tissue either, so it doesn't seem to spred.

By Spindle (Spindle) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 07:12 pm: Edit


Hmm, I shouldn't think it will spread unless the salt gets washed all over the place or something.

I doubt the mycelium isn't going to absorb the salt to any large degree. If you went microscopic, it probably has on the outer fringes, and what bits have absorbed the salt have already died, so now there's like a dead mycelium barrier protecting itself.

Pretty cool findings Hippie, its funny how with all the discussions of different ways to combat contams, one good way to kill it has been on our kitchen tables forever.

By Max Power (Babooscha) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 08:27 pm: Edit


we are currently using NaCl correct? regular table salt....right? anyone think a diff salt would work? Like road salt or "No Salt"...they are a diff chemical make up, I think substituting the chlorine....but dont quote me on it.....just my 02

By Spindle (Spindle) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 08:40 pm: Edit


Wow Max, I don't have any clue honestly. I have never heard of those kinds of salts, so I don't know how they behave. It really comes down to what the salt would do to the cells themselves.

Common salt, by nature, pulls water out of cell walls and causes them to shrivel and die. I used to know the scientific name for it even. Except, of course, in creatures that are adapted to this, whereas putting those creatures in fresh water would cause their cells to engorge with water until they die. Life's a bitch like that.

Basically, any compound that has a deadly effect to cellular walls and doesn't break down or go away would be effective. Bleach breaks down and alcohol evaporates, but salt is as simple as it gets.

By claviceps purpurea (Claviceps) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 09:18 pm: Edit


The salt has an inhibitory effect on the germination of spores. NaCL wil work in some cases, but sodium lignin sulfonate is more generalized. The sodium chloride though is probably the safest to use for your mycellium.

By sally solomon (Sallysal) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 09:30 pm: Edit


Woah Max, I wouldnt go playing around with road salts...I dont know their chemical components, but considering that it is for a more "industrial" use the components would probably be of low quality, most likely has a bromine or iodide attached to the Na ( much stronger than CL= not good for living tissues),or some nasty heavy metal replacing the sodium ( also very bad for living tissues/carcinogenic) and in less than desirable ratios. I think that if you got anything to grow in a cake with a salt of that type,the mycelia would most likely be pretty contaminated chemically and deformed or mutated. As Spindle said, the NaCl works ( doesnt kill everything in the cake because it isnt strong enough)p.s very creative application hippie!) because it dehydrates the remaining cells as well as taking up any nutrients from the surrounding substrate( the two ions dissociate in water and attach to everything), but a salt of unidentifiable molecular makeup, could do any number of things in the presence of water, including the mycelium incorporating some of the ions into it's tissues, or re joining with other molecules into some funky chemicals. A general hint( if u dont know anything about chemistry) would be not to use anything that you wouldnt give to your mum!

By Hippie3 (Admin) on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 09:39 pm: Edit


just a point of trivia,
but interestingly enough, bleach breaks down into salt.
and reverse osmosis is the process wherein salt can suck the moisture out of cells.


By Shroomzhilla (Shroomzhilla) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 05:38 am: Edit


maybe the Iodine in the salt has a role in ther too. maybe aniodine/betodine trial too? with and with out salt. Maybe I can put my BERNZO-MATIC back out in the shed. lol

By Hippie3 (Admin) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 12:26 pm: Edit


main problem is most iodine comes mixed with alcohol, definite harmful. and pure iodine crystals are too expensive, compared to salt.

By claviceps purpurea (Claviceps) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 08:57 pm: Edit


Baking soda works well, too, or anything alkaline, i.e. bleachwater. I'd go with the baking soda, though, first.

By Hippie3 (Admin) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 10:34 pm: Edit


have you actually tried baking soda or are you just theorizing ?
bleachwater alone is insufficient,
that's why i added salt.
salt works well

By miracletrader (Miraclet) on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 11:03 am: Edit


I have read something similiar to this Hippie3..I don't want to mislead, so I'll look for the info before I post it..
I have had many battles with trich, losing most, but I have had about 80% success in the last 18 months removing the infected area(only if its caught before it gets out of hand)instead of bleach solution, I've used h2o2 solution, and agar prior to it completely setting up(but PC'd already and cooled) to coat the surgery site..interesting thing, most of the time mycel. growth did occur, sometimes great oceans of it grew..I've yet to see actual fruitbodies grow from the site...but I have done it, and seen it work...Salt, now that would be so much easier than making the agar, and sterilizing it...I'd like to hear more, and will experiment myself....Now, I hope for trich...ha...

peace
miraclet

By Hippie3 (Admin) on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 01:34 pm: Edit


interesting,
never thought about using peroxidated agar in the wound.
but salt is easier and quick so i think i'll stick with it for now, i have more experiments planned.

By Max Power (Babooscha) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 02:55 pm: Edit


please excuse my ignorance but, wtf is agar?

By Pissybee (Pissybee) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 07:01 pm: Edit


It is a polysaccharide found in the cell walls of some red algae and is unusual in containing sulfated galactose monomers. It requires nothing but extraction and purification to become agar, but is sometimes chemically modified into agarose for special applications. Agar added to media simply gels them into a convenient solid form. It is used as a medium for growing cultures of fungus or bacteria.
PB

By Hippie3 (Admin) on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 10:00 pm: Edit


it's alot like jell-o made from seaweed.

By Hippie3 (Admin) on Wednesday, February 12, 2003 - 03:11 pm: Edit


update.
the salt is working great,
it seems to stop trich dead in its' tracks.
this could be a major break-through, people.
and remember,
you saw it here first.
so far every time i've used it, the trich quit spredding and the trays survive.
i really need others to try this and report back,
we need to get the word out as soon as we can verify my results.
i know someone out there has moldy cakes,
hit it with salt and see what you think.

By stephan (Notsuoh99) on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 03:13 am: Edit


Hip - I have been using the bleach mist with great success & foolishly believed my trich dealing days were behind me - NOT.

A day or so after reading your original salt post I saw tell tale bright white patches on two trays that have been flushing for weeks (everytime I get ready to chunk 'em more pins appear). Just hours later the evil green appeared.

I cut out the contam; packed the edges with Kosher salt (like table salt - just very coarse without the iodine);filled in the hole with sterile verm and waited. That was almost a week ago & all is well - no contams & the remaining surface is covered with healthy shrooms. Now, remember these are really old trays (5+ flushes - I lost count) & very susceptible to contam. I am impressed.

I think you are onto something, Hip - thanks for the research.
============================================================
from Mycotopia: Fungi: Salt and stopping green mold [trich]: mad scientists inquire within


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1304172 -

did a search on 'salt' and found this-
Cobweb control
Quote:
here are some interesting facts about cobweb mold taken from mushworld:

1) Soil disinfection
Spores of Dactylium dendroides are killed when exposed to 46-50'C (115-122'F) for only 1/2 hour (Wuest, 1982). Also, refer to the following table on thermal death point of different hyperparasitic fungi.

Table 1. Thermal Death Point (Van Zaayen and A. A. Rutjens, 1981) Fungus Thermal Death Point ('C, 30 min.)
Agaricus bisporus 54
Cladobotryum dendroides 43
Verticillium fungicola 39
Mycogone perniciosa 48

2) Salting
Salting is a traditional but still effective way to control the spread of mushroom diseases. However, you should know dispersal reaches a peak within an hour after salting and watering. Disturbance caused by salting is well enough to offset the benefit of salting: the control of air-borne pathogenic fungal spores.

Dr. Grogan made it clear that salting after covering diseased mushrooms with dampened tissue much reduces the number of spores, otherwise carried by air and thus, conducive to spreading the disease.

3) Early disease identification & Judicious watering
4) Good hygiene practices


You can find full article at www.mushworld.com.




btw, i know this idea isn't original, but i'm wondering why it's recieved so little attention. i found a few posts like from 2 years ago mentioning its' use but seems like everyone just sez 'toss it out' instead of listening to what the guy was saying.


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Edited by Hippie3 (02/13/03 12:26 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1304438 -

I simply case with 50/50 peat/cat litter w/baking soda(I rinse the litter clear then add peat)since going to this formula I have NO trich what-so-ever :wink:
PS the litter is made by Oil-Dri corp(google it baby!) and is a Si/Ca, w/trace Mg expanded clay with NaHCO2.I wash till clear and add Ascorbic acid till Ph7 and then mix with peat moss.IMHO it is the Sodium which inhibits trich which is why it seems the Sodium Ascorbate works so well.
PS this also seems to inhibit bluing in the fruits.WR


--------------------
To old for this place

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1305769 -

That's very good info hippie, thanks !

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: MAIA]
    #1309077 -

thx, it seems to work well, esp. after a bleach dip/misting.


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1314446 -

does salt help with cobweb?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: fredthetree]
    #1318082 -

apparently so.
i don't get cobweb much, but just recently had a bit pop up on an overly wet vermiculite casing so i salted all the 'hotspots' and watched. the cobweb disappeared completely overnight, and hasn't returned.


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1318152 -

After reading your post about salt i had a patch of green mould turn up in a casing it tryed removing it but it came back so i tryed the salt tec and it seems to have held it in place for 5 days so far so thanks :smile:


--------------------
er

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: G a n j a]
    #1319507 -

thx for sharing your results.


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1320211 -

Quote:
I wash till clear and add Ascorbic acid till Ph7 and then mix with peat moss.IMHO it is the Sodium which inhibits trich which is why it seems the Sodium Ascorbate works so well.

PS this also seems to inhibit bluing in the fruits


Isn't ascorbic acid just Vitamin C? Do you have a more "step by step" version of this tek that anyone who reads can follow (how to tell if the Ph is 7 without a digital meter, a recipe with amounts perhaps, sources for Sodium Ascorbate) ? Thanks a ton.


--------------------
"Only after you have lost everything, are you free to do anything"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Papa_Smurf]
    #1320887 -

Quote:
how to tell if the Ph is 7 without a digital meter



Don't you know about those paper strips you use on chem. classes ?

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: MAIA]
    #1322332 -

ya, but they were always a pain and not that accurate also was wondering if there was an accurate lehman's method of doing it (a recipe would be fantastic).


--------------------
"Only after you have lost everything, are you free to do anything"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Papa_Smurf]
    #1336309 -

yep, a recipe's helpful.


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Papa_Smurf]
    #1344106 -

Trich is not very common. Commercial mushroom cultivators generally use salt to combat Aspergilus and Penicilium


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: whiterasta]
    #1348600 -

More info on the sodium bicarb and on the vitamin c please? :confused:


--------------------
Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1349160 -

Quote:
Trich is not very common


i beg to differ,
it's so common as to be ubiquitous.
that means it's everywhere,
for the linguistically challenged.
:wink:
and more reports are in, salt is very effective.
see more recent reports at mycotopia.
 


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1353733 -

more reports.
Quote:
By Miraclet (Miraclet) on Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 01:28 pm: Edit


Well, I will confirm that, by cutting out the trich, on PF style cakes, or casings, lightly spraying either (h202, or bleach ) solution-1-200 ratio on both-where the infected area was, then filling it with salt, or salt agar does stop green mold, and doesn't seem to effect to cake/ casing in any way..I have tried this with 2 cakes, and three casings, and been successful with all..I also fought off cobweb using hippies salt TEK, so I can at least confirm from my end that when cobweb, or trich is caught in its early stages, it can be illiminated...

MT

By David Burton (Eloquence) on Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 04:31 pm: Edit


I had trich on a cake that I had colonising, and just scraped off the worst, covered it with salt, and then misted the top with a dilute bleach solution. That saw off the trich...

By claviceps purpurea (Claviceps) on Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 11:51 pm: Edit


I think I posted this before, but watch out for casings. The salt draws away the water if you have a lot on one side. Misting the dryer areas worked, and I am even getting pins now in the areas where I put the salt.

Oh, yeah -- no contamination!

-- cp

By Miraclet (Miraclet) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 12:57 pm: Edit


What..."I am even getting pins now in the areas where I put the salt"
I have used this on 5 different ordeals with trich, and never had so much as a wisp of new mycel. growth, hippie reported the same results, but your growing pins..The salt indeed stops the green mold, but also stops mycel. from regenerating there as well..


MT

By claviceps purpurea (Claviceps) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 03:49 pm: Edit


Sorry, I meant in the areas where I put the salt. They're growing from the sides of it, if I can get a digital camera I'll post pics.

Are you talking about casing? You need to *mist the dryer parts of the casing* more to balance out the osmotic potential. This is what I was trying to say.

By Max Power (Babooscha) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 04:03 pm: Edit


I used the salt tek on a jar contamed by trich, I wasnt the most sterile person and got salt on one side of my cake....came back the next day....the whole cake was not only invaded by a green trich but a black contam aswell.....but atleast nothing grew on the spots i excised and salted as well as the side of the cake with salt on it

By Miraclet (Miraclet) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 08:12 pm: Edit


Ouch...Ya, I had issues the same with salt, and I had success prior just removing the trich, and pasting plain agar in the area, so I tried making salt agar, and it worked..Plus, you can be more precise where the salt agar ends up...I dont remember where hippie had heard about this, but very good research, opens alot of possibilities..

peace
MT




--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1354015 -

Excellent !!
Good to see people having good results. I'll try it next time i have to deal with contams.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1356525 -

'Well, I will confirm that, by cutting out the trich, on PF style cakes, or casings'
Sorry, Trich RARELY contaminates substrates and is far more likely to parasite living fruit bodies.
Aspergillus and Penicillium on the other hand often contaminate substrates.
Infact when using a key for contaminants, you will find that substrate contamination often indicates that it is NOT Trichoderma.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1359197 -

trich is pretty common, at least where i live.
and i know the difference.
i see it mostly in the casing layer after a couple flushes,
besides 'rare' is a relative word and pretty meaningless in the context, green in always bad and salt will kill it all regardless of exact species.


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1366139 -

So you admit your ignorance? :smile:


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1367416 -

no,
but i will concede your's.
:smirk: 


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1396572 -

hahah


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1396767 -

IMy friend tried salt once, it killed the green, but it popped up elsewhere. But the place where the salt was never grew green. i hate trich.


--------------------
Dissidents are punished far more by themselves than by society.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1588376 -

dam hippie3 man i wished i would have read this thread about 2 hours ago..when i threw away my casing!!! :frown:  it seems that trich and i have became best friends cause it comes to visit me on every casing. I have tried everything and my friend still comes back usually after the first flush i start to see him. I usually am on a 50/50 tek with a bottom layer.

Cant wait to see him again. I HAVE A SURPRISE FOR HIM


THANKS


ROB

ps. Why does trich appear? I try to be pretty good at steralizing the work area with oven open and I lysol pretty much everything. Just wondering why this badboy keeps commin back..

Edited by Robbyrob (05/29/03 10:02 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Robbyrob]
    #1624674 -

trich likes excessive moisture, excessive co2, and hates a high pH. it can be introduced a myriad of ways but most likely from YOU. your clothes, your hair, your fingernails, your breath... the cleaner you are the less likely it is you will run into trich.


--------------------
To be honest, I fear the OTD. ---TheMadConductor

Now I'm gonna have to start getting down on my knees and blowing mushrooms... ---RogerRabbit

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: debianlinux]
    #1630738 -

excessive co2? by this do you mean the air exchange in the terrarium?

?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Robbyrob]
    #1631471 -

Yes, in this case, poor fanning creates a stalled air environment where the co2 released from the mycelium, which is heavier than O2, gets collected at the bottom and goes building up. If you don't exchange the air, the mycelium will virtually suffocate, it decreases its metabolic functions, results are well known, from no pinning to very small fruit bodies and also being more prone to contamination. Trich and cobweb are two good examples.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: MAIA]
    #1643273 -

Trich will commonly parasite fruit bodies - if it doesnt do this, then again is probably aspergilus.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1643924 -

Quote:
bluemeanie said:
Trich will commonly parasite fruit bodies - if it doesnt do this, then again is probably aspergilus.




lol
trich will parasitize mycellia, period. i've never seen it on anything but living tissue, but it need not be a fruitbody,
it will eat plain mycellia.
besides, like i said before,
who really cares what the exact species ID is ?
green mold is always bad, be it trich, aspergillis or pennicilum,
and salt kills them all.
not just green molds either, but all molds.
bacteria, too.
makes no matter which kind,
just so it works.
that's my view, at least.


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1644391 -

Unless you are EXTREMELY patient and VERY careful when dealing with trich, throw it out immediateliy!!! It takes over your casings, cutting off mycelium from top and bottom and then begins to break down it's cell walls into a goo-y mass of clear gell.

One little dime-sized patch of forest green means it's already released it's spores everywhere in that casing.

Spot it early if at all possible, relocate that casing to a totally new environment, and cut it out while it's still light green, cutting _at least_ 1/2 an inch if not 1 full inch away from the infected area. Salt, recase. Spray H2O2 on it before you even begin to insure spores don't fly around as you handle it! If you can, still keep that casing away from the others until you know for sure it's gone.

Unless you've gotten really good at handling contams, then do it the way you know best!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: c_mathimatics]
    #1647439 -

good advice.
i prefer to use a dilute mist of bleach water [200 parts water to 1 part household bleach] instead of peroxide, to mist the casing to kill any mold spores. bleach seems far more effective than peroxide, ime. we have many reports of good results battling contams using salt and bleach on file at mycotopia if anyone's interested in researching this topic further.

and bluemeanie,
please accept my apology for my previous post, i sound a bit peevish and
there was nothing in your post that warranted my response.


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1692597 -

Probably a dumb question. Can we store peroxide/water or bleach/water solutions? Will the H2O2 or bleach break down after a while of being stored? It's hard for me to mix just small amounts; if I store them will they be okay several days/weeks later?


--------------------
There are things known, and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors - Morrison

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: neutralizer]
    #1692801 -

once mixed, they need to be stored in opaque containers with a tight lid else peroxide completely breaks down in about a week and bleach in 24-48 hours. perixide breaks into water and oxygen, bleach breaks into water and salt.


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1716321 -

you can spray bleachwater right on your casing surface??? that seem like it would be somewhat poisonis

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: HarvestTheBrain]
    #1717525 -

well, it ain't.
do some research.
start here-
http://www.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/10346.html?1048188759


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1726297 -

i use this to store and apply peroxide solution. works unbelievably well.


--------------------
To be honest, I fear the OTD. ---TheMadConductor

Now I'm gonna have to start getting down on my knees and blowing mushrooms... ---RogerRabbit

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: debianlinux]
    #1729713 -

thanks debianlinux, defenitly have to get one of those


--------------------
Sure i have a deep and positive message...........but i just lost it somewhere in my head...
pi.....un jours yavais un groupe ouainssss, aut'chose, le gars y s'appelait francoeur pi la........j'ai tous compris!!!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: cd666cd]
    #1730540 -

nice link,
linux.
thx


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1749492 -

No need to apologize Hippie. I was being an anus as usual :smile: I remember a friend was working at a mushroom farm and i was quite surprised when he told me that they combat pretty much most contaminants with salt - and they will sometimes harvest off partially contaminated substrates.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1846215 -

using salt to fight trich is mentioned by stamets in the mushroom cultivator.. he also suggests baking soda, or a combination of the two, because these ingredients affect the ph of the substrate/casing around the contamination, stopping the outward growth of the contamination


--------------------
Be Here Now

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1849887 -

I recently had a trich problem, and i was not aware of this technique at the time, but what i did is sterilize a regular kitchen knife in alcohol flame and simply cut out the trich, making sure the cut was deep enough to get rid of the entire spot, and continued with the process. I am happy to report that within a day, the cut out part regrew over with healthy mycelium.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: MrMyco]
    #1850666 -

that's a good technique, better if you salt the wound created by cutting out the infection.


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #1906220 -

Baking Soda also works as well as salt. It does however bring up the ph level so its good to use sparingly. Trich has ruined almost every fruiting I've had so far, but I keep plugging along and hope to get this right soon:-)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3] * 1
    #1969286 -

i have found the same to be true, that trich is the most common that has grown on my 50/50 tek casings. it actually destroyed three of my bins when i went out of town for a couple days, came back and it was too late, bright green engulfing over half of each one...
i switched too hay tek and never had a prob with it untl couple months ago when my hay got a small dot of trich...next day it grew to about dime size...
I cut away the trich, then salted the scar...I found that by spraying water on it with the salt made the salt evenly coat the scar...has worked for me ever since with 100% results  :thumbup: :mushroom2: 

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: cotinMelody]
    #2241563 -

Would it be a good idea to dunk with a saline solution cause the green I've seen usually sets in not too long after a dunking.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: wackytron]
    #2241653 -

doubtful, but i confess i've never tried.
the idea behind dry salt is it only kills what it touches,
i'd be concerned that a saline solution strong enough to kill the green would likely also kill the mycellia it touched.


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #2548313 -

what exactly do i do when using the salt theory. just go in the kitchen grab a shaker and shake away?.....and then after that cobweb mold, do i leave the lids off for a few days of my casings? or what do i do someone please help i am loosing my crop...thanks..


--------------------
yep

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: exeeter]
    #2588216 -

Someone uses salt by pouring it liberally on the area of the casing that is contaminated. Make sure to go an inch or so beyond the contam area. Then spray with water...pretty heavily....then the saline solution soaks into the casing and to the substrate...sure it will kill the mycelium it hits, but it will stop the spread of most contams...

For cobweb, you can hit it with hydrogen peroxide...that usually does the trick.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #2670265 -

what about adding salt to the water when dunking??????? would this be effective as like a protective layer?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Myztr0]
    #2673120 -

a little salt is the dunk water
you might get away with
but i don't see it as very beneficial
too much salt will kill the mycellia


--------------------
Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #2682221 -

I caught some small patches of Trich on some straw i have colonising , it hadn't gotten a good hold , so i tried out the salt.

First , I sprayed the area infected with salt solution with a misting bottle , then cut away a good area around it , then poured on some dry salt to the wound left by the surgery  :smile:

left it for about 3 days , then cased. I checked out the straw before casing , it looked like the trich had been beaten , the myc looked good , didn't seem to upset by the salt solution , but only time will tell... casings are incubating right now , i'll know more on monday when they will be moved into fruiting , i'll check them out carefully and monitor during fruiting stage and post what info i find.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Inside]
    #2809350 -

Just found some trich and a big turkey pan size casing of just timothy hay, horse and cow dung. 50/25/25 ratio no top casing layer. I havent run into trich for a awhile I think It may have been because of not enough fanning altough it has always gotten it atleast twice aday. Anways it was fine this morning and when I came back from the beach today there where several spots that were working their way around the mycelium the largest maybe a little smaller then a silver dollar and two the size of quarters. I first put knives on the stove burner till red hot and burn off the green. Then I salted the wounds and sprayed the entire casing with a 50/50 peroxide water mix. I have no bleach around. I am more interested in mould resistant casing layers what are some good tips. I more on the kitty litter thing earlier mentioned in this thread would be great. I will post as to the results of the casing I hope I can save it because it's the only one I will have for a little while.


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: Hippie3]
    #2911467 -

Hippie3,
Thanks for the posting. I'm battling trichoderma on my casings now and was searching the forum for a cure.
I'm giving the salt tech a try - will post results...
Thanks again


--------------------


There's no such thing as a stupid question,
but they're the easiest to answer!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #2912434 -

has anyone tryed just puting salt in some water an misting with that would that work as a bandade till the flush was over??

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: cyndyl]
    #2925880 -

Hippie3,
It's been a few days and so far the tech is working. just thought I'd give this a vote of confidence.


--------------------


There's no such thing as a stupid question,
but they're the easiest to answer!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: cyndyl]
    #3246624 -

bump


--------------------
Protect your civil rights!  End drug prohibition.  And if you don't care about your civil rights, protect mine!

If you want a rating from me, please PM me.  For those really newbies, don't expect an answer back, but you can try me anyways.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Sam1912]
    #3685505 -

Shameless bump..

For anyone who has mold problems like my self...
Give this a try and see how it works

Gnostic


--------------------
For the sake of those seeking knowledge.
I've provided some in my signature.
Double Tek Pictorial
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Soaking wbs - The Final Answer by Agar
50/50 Coco Coir versus 50/50 Peat Moss.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3687913 -

How about spraying with salt dissolved in water? or Saltwater and some h2o2? I might give that a shot if this green mold bears its ugly head again.


--------------------
:cussing::whip:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hippie3]
    #12092938 -

bump


Started my first bulk grow with four bucket o'fungi a la otto's tek. WBS 100% colonized with PE spawned to coir/verm/coffee/gyp (65/20/10/5)

Just a test run before throwing all my eggs into one giant monotub, (58qt sterlite,) which is colonizing quite nicely at this point, by the by. Make some serious mistakes and learn from them, you know? Best way to learn.

Anyhoo, of the four, I lost one pretty early on to trich, (couldn't help my curiosity peaking in to see how everything was coming along,) and I immediately threw the bucket out. In about a week, two more of my buckets succumbed to trich, but I decided to see if I couldn't fight the blasted mold instead of just giving up.

Found this salt technique and thought I was saved, and did some quick surgery and salted myself some wounds. While I was seeing if it worked, I found several cats talking about how trichoderma mycelium is white and the green that one sees in the mold sporulating. (I love how all of these mycology terms, firefox doesn't know. hehehe.)

From what I understood, by the time you see green, the mold has taken hold and you're fucked. And after about 30+ hours, I saw myself some sporulating trichoderma. Out of curiosity, I just through the buckets in my laundry room, which is no where near where any of my operations, and decided to come what may. (an important detail about this space is that it's where our house litter box is and we have three cats. The owner of the cats doesn't clean up after them very often. Not my cats, not my mess, not my problem. But the skinny is that this is far from the most sanitary of rooms. In fact, it's FUCKING DISGUSTING.)


Fast forward to about a month later, the last bucket I had has pinned and is making me cum in my pants a little every time I peak in to see its progress. Monotub is incubating, have myself a gallon of spawn and a PC full of pasteurized sub. Figure it's time to clean out my failed buckets and start another batch because, why the hell not? Has the spawn, sub, space, and time.

At some point, a roommate of mine stacked the buckets one in another, blocking any and all FAE for the bucket on the bottom. I pull the top one off, remove the shower cap and there is the notorious trich, thriving in the dank, darkness that was its home. Though, on the top bucket, there is an area of brown where I cut the trich out, but it's mostly white. Not really thinking about it, I dump the contents of both containers into a bag to throw it away.

Curiosity gets the best of me and I pick up what I feel is garbage to inspect it, maybe break it apart and see what I can't see when I notice mushrooms growing! Upon further inspection, there is a fuckton of side pinning, primordia, hyphal knots galore, and no green!

No misting, no fanning, natural indirect sunlight, and this shit STILL managed to survive. Now my baby's in my room and will get the delicious mist/fan treatment that it prolly craves so hard.



tl;dr


Had trich, cut out the green, salted the area, misted heavily, and threw the bucket into an extremely unsanitary room, (with great FAE,) and neglected it for a month and my PE cubensis kicked it's ass and is within a week of harvest.


Many thanks to OP, and good luck to all those battling the green death. Despite the naysayers out there, I am pretty convinced that the salting tek holds some water. One thing I don't think can be reiterated enough is that trich can not survive with FAE. It needs stale and moist environment. Starve it of that and hopefully, your mushies will stand a chance to grow.


Hope my experience helps.



edit: Pulled the sub out to harvest the mutant side blobWonder s, (hurray PE!) that were my first flush and on the top, which was resting on the bottom of the bucket as I flipped it to accommodate the side pinning, was thriving with trich. Still more pins and blobs growing. Wonder how much longer my mycelium will last.


In the end, I didn't kill trich, but I deterred it enough to get a small harvest. Somethin's better than nothing, no?

Edited by montycantsin (03/04/10 08:00 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: Hippie3]
    #12098169 -

Quote:
btw, i know this idea isn't original, but i'm wondering why it's recieved so little attention. i found a few posts like from 2 years ago mentioning its' use but seems like everyone just sez 'toss it out' instead of listening to what the guy was saying.



Yeah, I agree, this sounds very interesting, and worth a shot... I've been IRC'ing for weeks and the only "option" presented there has been "throw it out".

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: ninjaneo]
    #12101801 -

so  what you just put salt on the trichoderma or what?
what salt? Sea salt or something else???


--------------------
By Albert Hofmann :
Been cautious man, I though I would start with a smallest, smallest quantity. Namely I started with 0.25mg.....and my intention was to increase dosage to see if something will happened.
That very small dosage, the first dose of my experiments i planed, was very very strong.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: Hofmann1943]
    #12102077 -

sorry didn't see there's 4 pages
salt hey I give it a try, have some sea salt right here and some trich also :smile:


--------------------
By Albert Hofmann :
Been cautious man, I though I would start with a smallest, smallest quantity. Namely I started with 0.25mg.....and my intention was to increase dosage to see if something will happened.
That very small dosage, the first dose of my experiments i planed, was very very strong.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: Hofmann1943]
    #13951786 -

I see an interesting early post
Quote:
Whiterasta said:

I simply case with 50/50 peat/cat litter w/baking soda(I rinse the litter clear then add peat)since going to this formula I have NO trich what-so-ever :wink:
PS the litter is made by Oil-Dri corp(google it baby!) and is a Si/Ca, w/trace Mg expanded clay with NaHCO2.I wash till clear and add Ascorbic acid till Ph7 and then mix with peat moss.IMHO it is the Sodium which inhibits trich which is why it seems the Sodium Ascorbate works so well.
PS this also seems to inhibit bluing in the fruits.WR


Baking soda is Sodium Bicarbonate, table salt Sodium Chloride. Is there a particular proprty of sodium (in different forms) to inhibit or kill off trich.
Has anyone else used any forms of sodium as an additive to bulk grows to discourage Trich? It doesn't sound like table salt would work for this as it'd kill off the mycellium but I'm interested in the feasability of using other forms of sodium to discourage Trich growth.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: BlueDruid]
    #14084032 -

Hope I never have to try it.


--------------------
http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-CalculatorLOL when you zoom in to try to read my sig pics you will get lost in the crystal forrest of ghanni!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: 3n1gm4]
    #14311114 -

Hello all... I am a newb at this so forgive me if this is a stupid question. I read the entire thread because so far 4/6 of my pf tek BRF jars have got green in them (about 2 weeks after inoculation). This is quite disheartening for me. I'd like to be able to save them if I can but is the salt tek purely for cakes AFTER they have been birthed?

From my understanding I can't "cut away" the moldy parts while they are still in the jar, so they would have to be birthed and then cut out, and then... do I put them back into the jars?? Or just try to fruit them as-is?

Thank you all...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: maitai]
    #14313864 -

You can't cut away mold, and it does little good to salt it unless you're within a day or so of harvest.  Even then, I wouldn't.

If your jars are contaminated 2 weeks after inoculation, check your sterile procedure as far as wiping down with alcohol, use of glovebox, flame sterilize the needle until red hot, etc.

RIP to the original poster.  It seems strange to see the name hippie3 pop on screen again.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14316220 -

RogerRabbit said:
You can't cut away mold, and it does little good to salt it unless you're within a day or so of harvest.  Even then, I wouldn't.

If your jars are contaminated 2 weeks after inoculation, check your sterile procedure as far as wiping down with alcohol, use of glovebox, flame sterilize the needle until red hot, etc.

RIP to the original poster.  It seems strange to see the name hippie3 pop on screen again.
RR


If you have seen trich before and know what it looks like in its dormant state before it turns green, is it possible to cut it away before it spreads or releases spores and then salt the wound?


--------------------
http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-CalculatorLOL when you zoom in to try to read my sig pics you will get lost in the crystal forrest of ghanni!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: 3n1gm4]
    #14321648 -

this could work.


--------------------
By Albert Hofmann :
Been cautious man, I though I would start with a smallest, smallest quantity. Namely I started with 0.25mg.....and my intention was to increase dosage to see if something will happened.
That very small dosage, the first dose of my experiments i planed, was very very strong.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: montycantsin]
    #14322986 -

montycantsin said:
Pulled the sub out to harvest the mutant side blobWonder s, (hurray PE!) that were my first flush and on the top, which was resting on the bottom of the bucket as I flipped it to accommodate the side pinning, was thriving with trich. Still more pins and blobs growing. Wonder how much longer my mycelium will last.


In the end, I didn't kill trich, but I deterred it enough to get a small harvest. Somethin's better than nothing, no?


And you disappeared two weeks later, never to be heard from again.  Undoubtedly all those trich spores ruined your place for ever growing again. 

Boys and girls, this is EXACTLY why one should toss out contaminated substrates on sight.  Don't try to cut the mold out, don't salt it don't do anything but get it outside if you ever plan on growing in that house again.  There may be trich spores in the air everywhere, but not in the huge quantities you'll get from leaving a trich infested substrate indoors.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #15568291 -

Can you give the tub some fresh air to keep it from getting contaminated if you think it may be too wet?  also does this look like it's infected too?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: memberjockey]
    #15797270 -

memberjockey said:
Can you give the tub some fresh air to keep it from getting contaminated if you think it may be too wet?  also does this look like it's infected too?


Highjacker :smile:

yes and yes


--------------------
By Albert Hofmann :
Been cautious man, I though I would start with a smallest, smallest quantity. Namely I started with 0.25mg.....and my intention was to increase dosage to see if something will happened.
That very small dosage, the first dose of my experiments i planed, was very very strong.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the use of salt in fighting trich [Re: Hofmann1943]
    #15861680 -

So thers no cuming back from trIch

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #20830271 -

Is this post still alive? Guessing if someone replies... We may have a new trichoderma elimination breakthrough!!
I am having a lil bit of trouble..

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: BurleyPsila]
    #20832198 -

u have a better chance of finding the cure for aids :chalkup:


--------------------
:volcano:  :volcano2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: tokeweed420]
    #20844028 -

tokeweed420 said:
u have a better chance of finding the cure for aids :chalkup:


Hah! good one..

Have you had any experience on eliminating trich?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: BurleyPsila]
    #20848733 -

You're better off focusing your energies into PREVENTION.


--------------------
AMU  (Amateur Mycologists United)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #25419490 -

Hello,

How do you use salt to fight trichoderma? What should be the amount of salt (g) in 1 liter of water to make the concentration safe for mycelium, but destroy trichoderma?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: MQover]
    #25422354 -

MQover said:
Hello,

How do you use salt to fight trichoderma? What should be the amount of salt (g) in 1 liter of water to make the concentration safe for mycelium, but destroy trichoderma?


You dont use salt. It doesn't work. The only way to get rid of Trich from your grow is to throw it in the trash outside


--------------------
My Old Grow Logs


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: Wing]
    #27723057 -

All of human history would heavily disagree with you. Sodium and Phosphate groups are excellent preserves.

Salt sucks the water contents out of cells and restricts enzymatic activity. Humans and mammals evolved the organ {kidney} to deal with as they use salt for many biological processes. Even with that evolution we still struggle to withstand the effects of salt and preservatives in our systems.

(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3582990/)
(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3278747/)

We are also different from fungi in that we have internal digestive tracks and not external ones.

I myself have researched and studied the process of growing oyster mushrooms in extremely salinized water with high nutrient contents. Even using commercial preservatives. It grows slower (sometimes barely and sometimes significantly; depends on the preserv), but without any containments. This is no surprise since fungus was the first species to migrate from the the sea to the earth. In fact they might have been the ones to create dirt in the first place.

Hydrogen peroxide for example easily destroys Trichoderma spores at low concentration without effecting mycelia networks (including mature trich colonies so be aware)

You can't cut out a trich infection because they're parasitic and high nutrient opportunistic (they're used to getting heavy nutrient loads from host plants.)

(https://biocontrol.entomology.cornell.edu/pathogens/trichoderma.php)

Meaning they wrap around and starve the mycelium they've infected.

However mycelium are taken from nature: oyster, lions, cube, etc. have all been exposed to live trich for millions if not billions of years. They have immune systems. They grow natural exposed to more containments than you could imagine.

All you need to do is to reduce the payload of the trich to a manageable level for the mushrooms. Meaning you need to deliver agents that can damage that trich without effecting the host. AKA salt.

(I'm not a molecular biologist so I have no clue why trich can't withstand salt and oyster, cube, lions, etc. can. They just can.)

Trich is not a decomposer, it's naturally found protecting and growing in/on plant roots. It needs high levels of nutrients or/from a root network to survive. That's almost the exact opposite environment you find oysters, cube, etc.

Deprive the trich of it's favored environment and nutrients. Provide your host decomposer high levels of cellulose and lignin. Things the trich can't eat for metabolism. And let that serve as a energy pool for immune responses. Once you've cultivated that host organism to a sufficient size for it's immune system to handle trich expose it to levels of nutrients (maybe even a salt bath with those nutrients)

I'm sick and tired of people trying to be poser scientists.

YOU DON'T HAVE THE SAME RESOUCRES OR EQUIPMENT!

Instead of just slapping a boat load of nutrients down your mycelium's throat actually take a second to think about the environment or niche it's evolved for. How can you best replicate that and provide additional support for it?

My own substrates consist of low nutrient density materials like wood chips and cardboard. Slightly soaked with salt.

Stuffing these grains and sugars down the mycelium's throat is akin to how the meat industry pumps its cattle with hormones. It's just a unnatural solution that only the big boys with all this funding and equipment can afford to do.

These simple nutrients like malt, fructose, and grain starches are almost the exact environment that contams like trich love. Nothing can decompose complex nutrients like decomposers (oysters, etc.) even bordering on breaking down hydro carbons like oil. Why would you throw away those amazing enzymes for a faster pay off?

Fungi like yeast I can understand. They have a amazing ability to just completely rip apart their competition. Even partnering with tasty bacteria in sour doughs. But oyster? It's a couple hundred thousand years to young to expect to perform like that.


--------------------
Those who act like they know all, know nothing.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: Shroomin4u]
    #27723075 -

I'm not quite sure what you're ultimately arguing here?

Using clean spawn with oysters for example allows me to produce multiple flushes on large straw columns.
The columns only got tossed once the mushroom weight produced reduced the viability of the old columns in the space that a fresh column could go.

There's no trich in that mix because of the clean spawn and substrate.

"My own substrates consist of low nutrient density materials like wood chips and cardboard. Slightly soaked with salt."

Do you grow commercially or just hobby growing?
What sorts of results have you achieved?

Starving a fruiting body of nutrients is counterintuitive and illogical, your argument regarding contamination favoring the nutrients shouldn't factor in here if you consider the process.

"Stuffing these grains and sugars down the mycelium's throat is akin to how the meat industry pumps its cattle with hormones. It's just a unnatural solution that only the big boys with all this funding and equipment can afford to do."

That's a bit over the top, we're creating optimum environments for fungus growth and you criticize it like we're some meat farmers.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27723103 -

DERRAYLD said:
I'm not quite sure what you're ultimately arguing here?

Using clean spawn with oysters for example allows me to produce multiple flushes on large straw columns.
The columns only got tossed once the mushroom weight produced reduced the viability of the old columns in the space that a fresh column could go.

There's no trich in that mix because of the clean spawn and substrate.

"My own substrates consist of low nutrient density materials like wood chips and cardboard. Slightly soaked with salt."

Do you grow commercially or just hobby growing?
What sorts of results have you achieved?

Starving a fruiting body of nutrients is counterintuitive and illogical, your argument regarding contamination favoring the nutrients shouldn't factor in here if you consider the process.

"Stuffing these grains and sugars down the mycelium's throat is akin to how the meat industry pumps its cattle with hormones. It's just a unnatural solution that only the big boys with all this funding and equipment can afford to do."

That's a bit over the top, we're creating optimum environments for fungus growth and you criticize it like we're some meat farmers.




I'm a hobby grower. My point was methods like using salt or peroxide are extremely viable small scale. Contrary to the quite ridiculous arguments I see here stating otherwise.

I can also understand the confusion. I'm not arguing for complete malnutrition I'm instead arguing for common sense practice. If your mycelium isn't ready to handle contaminants or is in a environment where it can't then fix the situation in advance.

Substrates like straw, card board (wood byproduct), Paper, Etc. Make intuitive sense to people. However grain (starch), malt/agar, etc. Are counter intuitive for beginners with little equipment. Because they require immense amounts of equipment to sterilize the air and tools your using.

So your giving your advice out to the wrong people. If you want a clean and sterile environment get a lab. Otherwise you'll get a mouth full of trich.

Things like still air boxes are completely silly as well. That seems to be the number one go to for shutting beginners down. Instead of saying "Use low nutrient materials if you aren't getting good results."

I followed the common advice and I would get contams like crazy. Damaging my passion. When I stopped listening to the common pseudo scientific methods I instead gained results.

It doesn't matter how much nutrients your giving if they never make it to the mycelium for fruiting.

"That's a bit over the top, we're creating optimum environments for fungus growth and you criticize it like we're some meat farmers."
Indeed I see people trying to suggest using coffee grounds and other things because they offer good results. Good farming results. But again decomposer mushrooms work the easiest on things like corn husk, paper, etc.

A lot of people seem to ignore the complex requirements for growing and slap sugars at the problem. Instead of taking a step back and looking at the best long term solution for small scale growing.

(also 90% of edible mushrooms are grown in Asia, primarily china, and contain stupid amounts of heavy metals.)


--------------------
Those who act like they know all, know nothing.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: Shroomin4u]
    #27723237 -

Shroomin4u said:
Things like still air boxes are completely silly as well. That seems to be the number one go to for shutting beginners down. Instead of saying "Use low nutrient materials if you aren't getting good results."

I followed the common advice and I would get contams like crazy. Damaging my passion. When I stopped listening to the common pseudo scientific methods I instead gained results.



I'm looking forward to the write ups (and peer reviews) of your Teks.


--------------------

LAGM 2.022

Edited by MetaSophia (04/06/22 01:26 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: Hippie3]
    #27839463 -

I keep getting trich. It always appears after the mushrooms have pinned/fruiting. I'm using sterile technique (clean room, gown,hair net,gloves,mask, alcohol,Lysol, hepa filter. Anyway I just tried your method of extraction and salt. I really hope it works because they are otherwise perfect. Hundreds of pins and primordial. I did separate the infected tub. If anyone has any ideas or advice for this relative newly I'd be grateful.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: meisenberg] * 1
    #28210126 -

Not trying to necro this thread, but after this I did some research.

-Different species of mushroom tolerate salt diffrently, some use in it their metabolisms (like how human kidneys use sodium as a required material for urination) and others don't but have protective mechanisms.

For example I've been cultivating oyster and have done some experiments. I took a culture and increased the salinity to about 300%. It took the oyster 12 days to die. These good results lead to me adding 2 grams of >1%SBC (less than 1% sodium bicarbonate) to a culture of oyster mushroom with the standard 5% nutrients.

The mycelium have literally reached the top of the culture. It's grown as thick as a carpet. Other species like shitake don't seem to mind such a small amount of SBC and perform only a little worse. But with a observable smaller chance of contam.

In regards to bulking stages; I now do a small amount of pasteurization (heating the water to boiling before I add spawn to feedstock), I think a small amount of hydrogen peroxide and a very small addition of either salt or SBC could also help reduce contams. Hydrogen because it would fight spores (not live organisms.)

I know pasteurization isn't boiling water (its keeping the water sub boiling), but compared to autoclavation it sort of is.

Anyway most bulk trichoderma is a matter of not adding enough spawn during the bulking stage (if you're getting grain, culture, or plate contams it's a matter of sterility. Either decreasing water content or increasing caution is enough to help stop this issue.)

Adding a small amount (>1%) of HP/SBC where applicable with very hot water should help you. (Don't mix boiling water with your substrate in a plastic or plastic lined container. Leaches microplastics)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: MetaSophia]
    #28210224 -

MetaSophia said:
Shroomin4u said:
Things like still air boxes are completely silly as well. That seems to be the number one go to for shutting beginners down. Instead of saying "Use low nutrient materials if you aren't getting good results."

I followed the common advice and I would get contams like crazy. Damaging my passion. When I stopped listening to the common pseudo scientific methods I instead gained results.



I'm looking forward to the write ups (and peer reviews) of your Teks.


me too! sounds like someone from the future that has figured out how to do things in a way that has perfectly achieved the goal im trying to reach. and although i just got the perfect makeshift SAB (which has drastically improved my success rate) id still be more than interested to hear about these low nutrient materials/procedures to simplify things for subsistance-ers like myself.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: 6The6Despised6One]
    #29022299 -

i’m as new as new gets. i’m so new that i’m looking at 10 tubs of various sizes and at different points in their life cycle, with various setups, in order to find my way in this hobby. 1 of the tubs is fruiting nicely, albeit everywhere but where I wanted it to (side, bottom) and i’ve got pins on 3 more, but there are another 3 that i’ve had to quarantine, because that bright white shaving cream looking mycelium popped up on my casing and being the noob that I am, i’m unwilling to let these tubs go. so, anywhere i’ve spotted anything that doesn’t look like the PE or MVP mycelium that i’m pet familiar with at this point has gotten absolutely covered in salt. and, so far, I have seen no signs of green nor has it spread in those tubs. i’ll report back if and when they actually produce anything, but so far salt seems to be the real deal when it comes to dealing with the invader whose name I shall not give credence.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: sojeph] * 2
    #29022302 -

That is what you call confirmation bias.

Salt is a condiment for your food not for treating trichoderma.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold [Re: sojeph] * 1
    #29022523 -

And anyway, trying to treat trichoderma is like trying to keep vultures away from a rotting corpse. By the time you see green, the patient is already dying. Actually, by the time you see trichoderma mycelium, the jig is up, but it's common for new growers to mistake it for "totally clean robust growth."

Trichoderma is everywhere, it typically moves in and takes over when a substrate has been compromised in some other way


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5  [ show all ]

Shop: MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Salt and green mold Buddha5254 2,559 2 03/28/03 07:34 PM
by motaman
* fighting cobweb mold esquandolas 1,590 1 08/30/04 03:37 AM
by muse_sick
* very nice pin set, but green mold is present disturbed 4,505 7 12/17/04 11:10 AM
by ZeroArmy27
* Using salt on cobweb mold. Anonymous 1,783 4 11/27/02 11:33 PM
by Drummer
* Any luck with fighting cobweb mold?Anyone? Sterile 2,680 5 05/09/01 09:36 AM
by shellacct
* Question abot using salt kornkob101 862 5 09/05/04 02:32 PM
by Mykey
* Ack! Green mold attacking my casing! antioch 1,512 9 02/05/05 02:51 PM
by antioch
* salt for humidity? High_On_Magic 1,286 10 12/04/13 06:17 AM
by RogerRabbit

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, the_chosen_one, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, hamloaf, cronicr, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
77,412 topic views. 10 members, 189 guests and 138 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.059 seconds spending 0.011 seconds on 14 queries.