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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: exclusive58]
    #2691111 -

The insomnia addict in me was channeling a butt-nugget of truth.

Forgive me, Lord, for I have grinned.


--------------------
Two men look out through the same bars;
One sees the mud, and one the stars.
-Frederick Langbridge

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: sammy_jankis]
    #2691580 -

sammy_jankis said:
The revolution won't be televised is right.

I don't like how Matrix: Revolutions was a bunch of overhyped bullshit that was almost completely devoid of philosophy altogether. Nothing new was presented in that movie... it was just a bullshit marketing ploy.

Places like Hot Topic sell "Punk" and every person I've ever known that was into Punk has at some point in their life bought some bullshit zippered pants, studded armband, or wild-colored hair dye from a place like Hot Topic. It's not counterculture, it's a subculture.

All counterculture has become a marketable trend with it's own catchphrases, symbolism, and hierarchy of "cool". From Tupac's "Thug Life" phrase to the hippie's tie dye to the punk rocker's mohawk to the grunge kid's flannel shirt to the goth's black lipstick to the raver's glowsticks - it's all for show. And it's all bullshit.

I can't even look at a magazine rack anymore without seeing color glossy covers of the latest "beautiful" human hawking themselves and their artless lifestyle to the swarming masses looking to fill the bottomless pit of insecurity with hollow signifiers that once contained meaning and substance.

And the war goes on...
The battleground is our minds. And The Man cruises around in his Sherman limosine firing round after round of useless information into the core of each and every one of us day in and day out. He stops at nothing. World domination is nothing. He aims to dominate all of existence.

And the mindrot seeps deeper and deeper into every nook, cranny, and fold. Education, politics, entertainment, art, justice, truth... they've all been tied down with the strings of the master marionetter. But is this puppeteer a person? Is it a single person/group/entity? I have a very hard time believing this to be so. I think it's more likely just an attribute to the nature of humanity and it's function on a mass level.

Enough rant for now. Enjoy.


People just do not have enough confidence in their own decisions to actually use their own mind. Well if nobody is confident in their own decisions and their following someone elses decision, then what is the result? It thoughtlessness, it is an unhealthy ego, it is absolute spiritual and mental confusion. Society will never externally reflect, what they do not have within.

Find peace in yourself, and find divinity in absolutely everyone.
The revolution sparks within.

BTW, people would find it a bit odd to know that I used to listen to a lot obscure pissed off underground punk: Raw Power, Husker Du, Cromags, a lot of stuff... Now I only go to live punk shows because thats when punk music is genuine (I think it loses all its power when its recorded). For recorded music I generally listen to classic rock or some good melodic metal.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: sammy_jankis]
    #2691868 -

Society will always assimilate any movement over time and repackage it for easy consumption. No one should be surprised when this happens to their favorite undiscovered niche. It even happens to religions! (Christianity is a good example). All movements become diluted and distorted over time to suit the general populace's need to remain dumb and numb.

One of my pet peeves is seeing people using powerful symbols as fashion accessories when they have no respect and little knowledge of the meaning behind them.

As for music, Nirvana used to attract punk crowds until their music blew up. Then they started attracting frat boys- the very type of people who make punk's lives hell! The following lyric is about that type of person:

And I say

He's the one
Who likes all our pretty songs,
And he likes to sing along
And he likes to shoot his gun
But he knows not what it means

Knows not what it means..


--------------------
I am what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: Jellric]
    #2691999 -

i dont think conformity is nessisarily bad, its just that we all conformned into a destructive entity.

fractional banking is bad mmkay.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: BleaK]
    #2692020 -

cliche' cliche' cliche'

all of dialouge on "the sytem" and "conformity" has been regurgitated a thousand times and it is still as idiotic as when it was during its inception.

come on, think up some new ways to analyze the situation, or Im gonna go watch tv.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: sammy_jankis]
    #2692228 -

" don't like how Matrix: Revolutions was a bunch of overhyped bullshit that was almost completely devoid of philosophy altogether. Nothing new was presented in that movie... it was just a bullshit marketing ploy."

when WASN'T a marketing ploy? they spent hella money on that movie in order to MAKE money. btw, it was part 3, the two movies before them had all the philosophy stuff. btw..I still saw philosophy, remember when neo was in the train station, and was talking to that one guy and his daughter, if you can't philosophy in the scene, look again.

"Places like Hot Topic sell "Punk" and every person I've ever known that was into Punk has at some point in their life bought some bullshit zippered pants, studded armband, or wild-colored hair dye from a place like Hot Topic. It's not counterculture, it's a subculture."

that's right...you judge those people. the fact that you look at what people wear and then judge their ideas based on clothes and where they shop shows you have no inkling of what a revolutionary means.

"All counterculture has become a marketable trend with it's own catchphrases, symbolism, and hierarchy of "cool". From Tupac's "Thug Life" phrase to the hippie's tie dye to the punk rocker's mohawk to the grunge kid's flannel shirt to the goth's black lipstick to the raver's glowsticks - it's all for show. And it's all bullshit"

yeah it's all for show...but again...how are you to judge? what about the ideas and what action they may or may not take...that which matters most. I've got a couple of hippy shirts, I've got shirts with bands names on them, but it's not like I put emphasis of my clothing to my ideas, but if you saw me with one of those hipppy shirts on, I bet you'd judge me, think my ideas is of peace love and joy (which partly it is, but that's all of us) get it?

to DO somehting about it is way different. to me, being counter culture in this day and age is to volunteer. help feed the millions of kids that go hungry in our country. present ideas that can help people for shelter food and education instead of looking at a mag or hot topic and thinking how this world is fucked.

"And the war goes on...
The battleground is our minds. And The Man cruises around in his Sherman limosine firing round after round of useless information into the core of each and every one of us day in and day out. He stops at nothing. World domination is nothing. He aims to dominate all of existence."

go tell that to the hungry people that won't have a place to sleep tonight.

" think it's more likely just an attribute to the nature of humanity and it's function on a mass level."

that nature of humanity? humanity has everything...joy, peace, love, hate, horror, war, regret, frustration, anger, pity, and so on...we are everything, or at least have the ability to be so. but as far as a function on a mass level, nah, you can't generalize all of us like that.

what do you think is a revolutionary?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: kaiowas]
    #2692630 -

well first of all i think your misinterpreting the problem.
Trends like the punks, hippies, ravers, thrashers and skaters are all started by something real. Hippies were not about money, they were about peace and pot, ravers are not about money there about dancing and drugs, punks are not about money, there about music and indiviuality, thrashers are not about money there about music and partying, skaters are not about money, there about SKATING.

Now, if all these things have a tendency to become inevitably intertwined with our societies consumerist culture, that is not because there isnt something deep and real to each of these trends, its rather for two reasons.

ONE: individuality is cool. And everyone wants to be cool. so when a real individual shows up in a crowd of conformists (the first punks, skaters, thrashers etc) all the sheep want to dress like him so they too can be cool, and thus for every true skater is a dozen poseurs.

TWO: good things catch on. Trends are trends because the lifestyle they offer appeales to a lot of people. Alot of people realized music, pot and lieing in the grass having sex kicked ass, so alot of hippies were born. But alot of them wanted colourfull ponchos and tie die shirts, so companies started producing them, and the only way to sell them was to advertise, and thus trends are inevitable consumerized. THis is simply supply and demand, and not nescessarily a bad thing.

There will always be true rockers, true hipsters and true metalheads. Unfortunatly there will always be a number of wanna bes and there will always be some greasy buisness man trying to turn a profit, but thats life.

Dont let it stop you from believeing and dressing and doing whatever or however you want.

positronius: "all of dialouge on "the sytem" and "conformity" has been regurgitated a thousand times and it is still as idiotic as when it was during its inception. "

there is a system, and its a bad one. And people conform to it, and thats bad too, hence the problems generated by our culture and "the system" are perpetuated from generation to generation. If its been said a thousand times thats just because its still true. Now get off your asshole/negativity vibe, chill out and say something constructive.

and if your gonna pick apart every detail of what people say, at least use some decent grammar when you do so.

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2693171 -

"at least use some decent grammar when you do so"

2 points for unintentional irony.

You thoughts are interesting. I criticize someone for having an obscenely negative viewpoint, and you in turn, criticize me for being negative.

YEEEEEHAAAA!!! IGINLA JUST SCORED A SHORT-HANDED GOAL ON A BREAK-AWAY!!!!! FUCKING BEAUTIFUL!!!


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

Edited by Positronius (05/17/04 08:26 PM)

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: Positronius]
    #2694689 -

It was a RANT. I dont have a negative viewpoint overall. I'm pretty content with my life. I think I just want things to be better for everyone else, even if they're just sheep following their herd instinct.


--------------------
Two men look out through the same bars;
One sees the mud, and one the stars.
-Frederick Langbridge

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: sammy_jankis]
    #2694693 -

Quote:
I can't even look at a magazine rack anymore without seeing color glossy covers of the latest "beautiful" human hawking themselves and their artless lifestyle to the swarming masses looking to fill the bottomless pit of insecurity with hollow signifiers that once contained meaning and substance.


I'm not surprised everyone missed this.
I bet not another person here knows what the term signifier means.

It's sad, really, that not one person noticed the conflict.... the kid knocks the Matrix in a cliche sort of way, but follows up with a veiled admiration of Baudrillard - the guy who the Wachowskis admittedly borrowed from ("the desert of the real"- straight outta Baudrillard).


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: Sclorch]
    #2694702 -

kid?  I'm not THAT green. :tongue: :tongue:
I haven't read that much of Baudrillard, but i do like the concept of signifiers. I think it works.  You just reminded me of sometihng else thats been on my mind.  If the masses are just going to buy whatever art that's sold to them anyway, I say it might as well be good art instead of this Brittney Spears bubble gum garbage.  WHY NOT!


--------------------
Two men look out through the same bars;
One sees the mud, and one the stars.
-Frederick Langbridge

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: sammy_jankis]
    #2694718 -

sammy_jankis said:
kid?  I'm not THAT green. :tongue: :tongue:


hehe... fair enough.  :wink:

Quote:
You just reminded me of sometihng else thats been on my mind.  If the masses are just going to buy whatever art that's sold to them anyway, I say it might as well be good art instead of this Brittney Spears bubble gum garbage.  WHY NOT!


A professional musician friend of mine and I discuss this often.
Basically, artists aren't controllable.  They're unpredictable.  The industry would much rather have a robot dance around, sing meaningless unoriginal tripe and/or covers, and look sexy than sign an artist to fuck trends up and lose them gobs of money in the process.  Look at what Kurt Cobain did:  he literally CRUSHED the entire hair band genre with one album.

One thing I am certain of - it will happen again.  I don't know who, how, or when.... but it WILL happen again.  Some artist will shake things up to a point where men in tacky business suits lose their asses because they bankrolled crappy entertainment instead of good art.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: Sclorch]
    #2696698 -

Give him a break, He does not have to do anything and he can complain all he wants. I may have heard it all before, but at least I like what I am hearing.

Edited by hawk (05/18/04 02:46 PM)

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: hawk]
    #2697669 -

Thanks.
I'm not claiming that anything I said was original. Just venting I guess.


--------------------
Two men look out through the same bars;
One sees the mud, and one the stars.
-Frederick Langbridge

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: sammy_jankis]
    #2697715 -

You should check out Adbusters if you haven't already.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: Sclorch]
    #2697778 -

Sclorch said:
You should check out Adbusters if you haven't already.


Adbusters =  :cool: :thumbup: :thumbup:  :heart:


--------------------
Pot cures cancer.  Tell your friends.

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: sammy_jankis]
    #2697967 -

perhaps there is an undercurrent of a kind of revolution almost unimaginable that comes through in subcultures, this being the return to more tribal networks of humanity. The fact that trade must be accomplished to get some style is almost unavoidable. But like you say the clothes are just the sheath, and it is the metal of the blade which is really important.

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: CJay]
    #2699066 -

CJay said:
perhaps there is an undercurrent of a kind of revolution almost unimaginable that comes through in subcultures, this being the return to more tribal networks of humanity.


I'd like to you to elaborate on this more, if you don't mind. I find it interesting.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: Sclorch]
    #2699807 -

adbusters = snoooooooore


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Re: I h8 it when "revolution" is sold back to us [Re: sammy_jankis]
    #2699939 -

the machines are taking over


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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