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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Kryptos]
    #26201342 -

Kryptos said:
NABU was one of the entities that Shokin investigated as a criminal enterprise, actually.


So instead of letting him do the investigation, Biden said "Oh shit, we'd better fire the guy!"?

Kryptos said:
You know, one thing about countries riddled with corruption, is that literally everyone is in on the take. If you're not in on the take, you're not in power. This is something I learned pretty quick in Russia. The question wasn't whether you followed the law, the question was whether you could afford the bribe.


I learned the same lesson in the US.

Kryptos said:
Last time I visited my family, I remember seeing a bunch of cameras everywhere. Why were there cameras everywhere? It wasn't security, though that was a side benefit. It was to prevent the road police from taking bribes. (Russia generally has two separate entities--one enforces traffic laws, one does actual police work and chases criminals). Same with government offices and other buildings. Places where I used to pass someone a thousand rubles (~20$) to look the other way I started having to wait in line and shit.


Good for Russia!

Kryptos said:
Should Biden be investigated? Absolutely.

Should donald be investigated for kick-starting the investigation? Absolutely.

The fact that everyone is in on the take doesn't mean that the crimes of the former excuse those of the latter.


I absolutely agree.  :thumbup:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26201369 -

Donald J. Trump Tweeted:



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Citizen X] * 1
    #26201394 -

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-accuses-democrats-of-launching-a-ukraine-witch-hunt/ar-AAHDAs8?li=BBnb7Kz

Quote:
Trump said:
"It doesn't matter what I discussed, but I'll tell you this: Somebody ought to look into Joe Biden's statement,"



Yeah America, these are private conversations between Trump and foreign leaders. This is his private biz over here.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26201409 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Morel Guy said:
I don't think what Biden did is against US law.

It seems what Trump did may be.


So withholding money unless they fire the investigator who is investigating your son is ok.  But withholding money so they understand why they fired the investigator investigating corruption is not ok?


If you think what Biden did was wrong, your problem is with Obama. Biden was exercising administration policy.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26201413 -

LogicaL Chaos said:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-accuses-democrats-of-launching-a-ukraine-witch-hunt/ar-AAHDAs8?li=BBnb7Kz

Quote:
Trump said:
"It doesn't matter what I discussed, but I'll tell you this: Somebody ought to look into Joe Biden's statement,"



Yeah America, these are private conversations between Trump and foreign leaders. This is his private biz over here.


The president doesn’t have “private biz” in his role as president.

Executive privilege does not cover corrupt actions.

We haven’t even talked about the fact that the administration is illegally blocking the procedure for dealing with whistleblower complaints

Edited by koods (09/21/19 05:29 PM)

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26201422 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Donald J. Trump Tweeted:




And is this something that you believe 100% and do not question the legality at all?

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26201425 -

The amazing thing is he’s doing the exact same thing he’s accusing Biden of doing - using the power of the state to influence a foreign government to further his personal agenda.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: koods] * 1
    #26201430 -

That's part of my point. I think what Biden did is shady at best. That should be looked into.

However, the actions of Biden can;t be used as an excuse to disregard the actions of donald, and more importantly, we cannot treat this as a "first come first served" thing where Biden gets tried first, because Biden and donald are on very different levels of political power right now.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: koods]
    #26201501 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
koods said:
Fal has the hugest soft spot for the most blatantly corrupt leaders around the world.


Maybe YOU can tell us what Viktor Shokin did to get fired?  Not a generic answer, a specific one.


Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
koods said:
So the Ukraine reopened an investigation after trump started extorting them to do so. Looks like this was already investigated.


Maybe you can show evidence that an actual investigation actually took place?  Or is that just make believe?


Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
koods said:
it’s the first paragraph of the NYT article you posted.


I don't see it.  Can you quote where it says the investigation was completed?  Or is that make believe?

koods said:
You think Biden went rogue? He was conveying an administration policy, not a personal agenda. The Obama administration wanted the corrupt prosecutor before they loaned Ukraine money. Do you have any evidence Biden was behind the policy? The interview you posted demonstrates Biden clearly felt he was tasked with informing the Ukranians of the policy.

At the time Biden went to Ukraine, the investigation into the Gas company had fizzled out and was not active. The government has also stated that the was no pressure from the US to drop any investigations  into the gas company


Source?  Or make believe?  I have to ask because so many of your posts are make believe.


So one make believe post after another after another, and you have no proof for any of these, but you just keep on make believing?  :facepalm3:  :facepalm3:  :facepalm3:

koods said:
If you think what Biden did was wrong, your problem is with Obama. Biden was exercising administration policy.


Ah, the old Nazi excuse...  "Don't blame me for exterminating the Jews, I was just following orders.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26201514 -

You know what we should do? NOT nominate someone who does foreign corruption for their family members.


--------------------

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Kryptos]
    #26201563 -

Kryptos said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Donald J. Trump Tweeted:




And is this something that you believe 100% and do not question the legality at all?


It depends on what you mean.

Does the fake news get a lot money for making fake news?  Yes.
Are they told they'll get a lot of money for making fake news?  No, but the establishment media won't hire people who don't defend the rich and powerful.  Did you see Biden telling everyone he knows the mainstream media supports him?
Is the media asking for an investigation of Biden (or even Obama)?  No, for some reason they're not.
Did Donald do anything wrong by withholding money for supposed corruption?  I don't know, let's investigate.

Did Biden do anything wrong by withholding money until the prosecutor investigating his son's company was fired???  I don't know, let's investigate.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26201628 -

Ok the fired prosecutor was not investigating Bidens sons company


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: koods]
    #26201679 -

Well no duh, Biden had him fired.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26201693 -

The Obama administration wanted him fired. And he wasn’t investigating the company in the first place.

The problem with these accusations is some people stating as fact that the prosecutor was investigating the company and firing him would stop it. You need to prove that before anything else in this debate can continue.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: koods]
    #26201726 -

Oh that's rich.  You want me to provide evidence while you keep pushing a TON of make believe you haven't proven.  :rolleyes:

I provided you that evidence a long time ago from the New York Times:
Quote:
Hunter Biden and his American business partners were part of a broad effort by Burisma to bring in well-connected Democrats during a period when the company was facing investigations



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26201764 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
koods said:
Fal has the hugest soft spot for the most blatantly corrupt leaders around the world.


Maybe YOU can tell us what Viktor Shokin did to get fired?  Not a generic answer, a specific one.


Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
koods said:
So the Ukraine reopened an investigation after trump started extorting them to do so. Looks like this was already investigated.


Maybe you can show evidence that an actual investigation actually took place?  Or is that just make believe?


Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
koods said:
it’s the first paragraph of the NYT article you posted.


I don't see it.  Can you quote where it says the investigation was completed?  Or is that make believe?

koods said:
You think Biden went rogue? He was conveying an administration policy, not a personal agenda. The Obama administration wanted the corrupt prosecutor before they loaned Ukraine money. Do you have any evidence Biden was behind the policy? The interview you posted demonstrates Biden clearly felt he was tasked with informing the Ukranians of the policy.

At the time Biden went to Ukraine, the investigation into the Gas company had fizzled out and was not active. The government has also stated that the was no pressure from the US to drop any investigations  into the gas company


Source?  Or make believe?  I have to ask because so many of your posts are make believe.



So no sources?  That was all just a bunch of make believe???


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26202063 -

I'm surprised this point hasn't come up yet:

Can anyone here tell me why United States Ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, was removed from her position two months early?

For those don't like to Google, it's because the successor to the prosecutor that Biden kicked out said Yovanovitch gave him a "do not prosecute list".

Uh oh...  :popcorn:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26202287 -

For what it's worth, as an outsider looking in, Falcon is absolutely smashing it here.

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26202292 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'm surprised this point hasn't come up yet:

Can anyone here tell me why United States Ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, was removed from her position two months early?

For those don't like to Google, it's because the successor to the prosecutor that Biden kicked out said Yovanovitch gave him a "do not prosecute list".

Uh oh...  :popcorn:


And? This goes against your whole argument but you don’t seem to realize it


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Trump/Giuliani lobbying Ukraine for dirt on Biden and his son [Re: koods] * 1
    #26202704 -

Imagine if you applied the same incredulity at the media and capitalism as you do with the corruption of Democrats


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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