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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: feevers] * 1
    #25841965 -

I'm seeing it again in this thread despite the OP.

When one experiences ego death there is no I. For all intents and purposes you literally die. You don't communicate and you don't think. You feel and that is all. You can see but only from a minds eye perspective that looks all directions at once, but that is kind of irrelevant as there is no time or way to remember infinity against itself.

"I had an amazing OBE trip with amazing visions" is not ego death. This is quite likely a "break through" experience. But that's not what all the cool peeps are chasing these days. That was last years fad.

Ego death is something that happens rarely to people, and may have ongoing negative or positive consequences, or both. It's not something to aspire to achieve, it's not an achievement. It doesn't fix problems. It doesn't do anything. It's not even required for the outcomes that people are searching for. People can have drastic self realizations without smashing their brains to the point they remember dying.

Reading through this thread I'm beginning to better understand how popular culture has begun to idolize this type of experience. The cycle repeats.


--------------------
We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: Northerner]
    #25842006 -

The ego never stays dead, it always comes back.

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: Northerner]
    #25842090 -

"chasing" an ego death will very likely keep you from ever experiencing one.

It's not like DMT where you chase a breakthrough. You can take the hit and feel things start to get progressively weirder and weirder and be like "Is this a breakthrough?", "Is THIS a breakthrough?", and then smash into hyperspace and say "Why, yes. This is a breakthrough."

if you're asking "is this an ego death?", you're already heading west when true ego death is east.

drugs can give you a glimpse, meditation gives that glimpse staying power.

Edited by feevers (02/27/19 06:56 PM)

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: Northerner]
    #25842091 -

Northerner said:
Something I'm seeing about is a tendency for newer trippers to become fixated with the idea of ego death. I've seen the same thing before with newer DMT users becoming fixated with the idea of break through.


You didn't want the ultimate experience when you were new?

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: kabel] * 2
    #25842107 -

"the ultimate" is a marketing term
being accustomed to advertising probably drives the whole acquisitive side of this.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: kabel] * 1
    #25842117 -

kabel said:
Northerner said:
Something I'm seeing about is a tendency for newer trippers to become fixated with the idea of ego death. I've seen the same thing before with newer DMT users becoming fixated with the idea of break through.


You didn't want the ultimate experience when you were new?


I dunno man, we didn't have internet or mobile phones and stuff back then telling us stuff like this, that we should be aiming for x, y and z because that's the ultimate. We just used to eat/smoke the drugs to get wasted and have fun. Slowly but surely we pushed the envelope anyway and hit wild country, but that wasn't the destination on the map. It was always about the journey.

The "ultimate" psychedelic experiences in my life aren't the heaviest, knock out, nor OBE type experiences. The most euphoric and revealing experiences have always been on moderate doses with excellent set and setting.


--------------------
We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25842375 -

redgreenvines said:
"the ultimate" is a marketing term
being accustomed to advertising probably drives the whole acquisitive side of this.


What would you prefer to call it? Heroic?

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: Northerner]
    #25842391 -

Northerner said:
I dunno man, we didn't have internet or mobile phones and stuff back then telling us stuff like this, that we should be aiming for x, y and z because that's the ultimate. We just used to eat/smoke the drugs to get wasted and have fun. Slowly but surely we pushed the envelope anyway and hit wild country, but that wasn't the destination on the map. It was always about the journey.


Come on, you didn't have Terence McKenna back then saying you should take 5 dried grams in silent darkness?

Quote:
The "ultimate" psychedelic experiences in my life aren't the heaviest, knock out, nor OBE type experiences. The most euphoric and revealing experiences have always been on moderate doses with excellent set and setting.


I think this whole thread is a bunch of old guys trying to be "one up" on the young guys. I guess it's true what guy above said about the egos always coming back, lol

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: Northerner]
    #25842409 -

Northerner said:
I've seen the same thing before with newer DMT users becoming fixated with the idea of break through.



I'll agree light and moderate trips have their place, but are you claiming there isn't a world of difference between a breakthrough and a sub-breakthrough experience?

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: kabel] * 1
    #25842458 -

This thread is about the current fad towards people trying to confirm that they have had, or trying to experience ego death. Same as last year when "break through" was trendy and we were seeing the same questions about that in every fourth topic. I was very clear in the OP.

I hadn't even heard of McKenna until I came to this site, nor Leary, nor anyone like that. :shrug:

Indeed breakthrough experiences are incredible. It's not something I like to do much as it's a bit of a kick in the pants. Liking moderate doses and getting more from them is hardly a one up on anyone man, I really don't know where you pulled that from. No one was knocking anyone else down in any way either. I don't even know why I'm defending the community against that meritless accusation.


--------------------
We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #25842484 -

When I had first started tripping I used to refer as minor ego dissolution as ego death and I used to intend on reaching this "ego death" every time I tripped. It wasn't until a few grams of mushrooms literally made me forget where I was, who I was, and what I was, that made me understand ego death. All I know is that night I died and was reborn as my truest self, too bad it happened in front of a crowd of paramedics and police officers.. Point is, I think the obsession is curiosity. Who doesn't want a glimpse of whats next? Now do these people really know what it is there asking for? That's another question, but I'd answer that no one does.


--------------------
Step 1: Stare at this for 30 seconds

Step 2: Look at this after following step one

Step 3: Enjoy the mini trip :trippinbawelz:

Edited by LiquidVisions (02/27/19 10:23 PM)

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: LiquidVisions] * 3
    #25842486 -

The term "ego death" is so problematic.  Sigmund Freud was a coke-head from 100 years ago.  He fantasized about fucking his own mother.  But his ideas about how the mind works determine the language we use to interpret tripping?  He didnt even know anything about how the brain really works.  He lived before brain imaging.  His concepts are crude and inaccurate.  Why are we forced to interpret the psychedelic experience through his lens?  Has your super-ego ever died?  What about your id? Fuck Freud and the concept of the ego.

I see it like this: when you take a high dose of psychedelics the functioning of your brain is affected to the point that normal processes of self-awareness are disrupted. You no longer use words or focus on yourself .  You no longer process anything beyond the immediate, raw experience of "right now".  You just "are".  It is wonderful and healing.  It can also be very shocking and scary, especially if you try to fight it.

Why must we put terms to it or try to understand it via Freud?  There are no words or concepts during that time.  Categorizing it and systematizing what it means... these things do not come from the deep psychedelic state.  They come from the non-psychedelic state and are alien to what they attempt to describe.

So I say, lets abandon the term "ego death" and all the boasting and value judgments that accompany it.  More deep trips; less Freud.  Peace.


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IT WAS ALL A DREAM

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #25842498 -

Northerner said:
I'm seeing it again in this thread despite the OP.

When one experiences ego death there is no I. For all intents and purposes you literally die. You don't communicate and you don't think. You feel and that is all. You can see but only from a minds eye perspective that looks all directions at once, but that is kind of irrelevant as there is no time or way to remember infinity against itself.

"I had an amazing OBE trip with amazing visions" is not ego death. This is quite likely a "break through" experience. But that's not what all the cool peeps are chasing these days. That was last years fad.

Ego death is something that happens rarely to people, and may have ongoing negative or positive consequences, or both. It's not something to aspire to achieve, it's not an achievement. It doesn't fix problems. It doesn't do anything. It's not even required for the outcomes that people are searching for. People can have drastic self realizations without smashing their brains to the point they remember dying.

Reading through this thread I'm beginning to better understand how popular culture has begun to idolize this type of experience. The cycle repeats.



It's like Bigfoot. People are intrigued with something that they know deep down doesn't exist but they hear stories so they go out looking anyway


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.

It's just a shot away..

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: Grey Fox] * 1
    #25842500 -

E g o d e a t h
8 letters
2 words
You have this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego#Ego
Then this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_death

Also this:

You guys are trying to describe an experience that's 99% subjective.

I wish you gods speed sirs ; D


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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: korgoth] * 1
    #25842688 -

only true ego death you will ever experience is the real one when you finally do cease to exist.

but i think problem is that people were told what trip should be like. and many, many people fall into trap of thinking they are norm, that everyone should have experiences like they have.

and than when you put into equation "psychedelic gurus" and throw word like heroic and divine and spiritual and what not, it does sound like challenge.

its subjective. to me even lvl number are silly as fuck.

imo


--------------------


Looping our reflections, our obsessions draw us in
Fix and fixation, no sentience beyond

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: Northerner]
    #25842707 -

Northerner said:
Liking moderate doses and getting more from them is hardly a one up on anyone man, I really don't know where you pulled that from. No one was knocking anyone else down in any way either. I don't even know why I'm defending the community against that meritless accusation.


Meritless? Right after you made your post a bunch of guys chimed in saying how hardly anyone else was really getting where "they got." You're one up is a bit more subtle, and how you get more out of less through your set and setting. It's cool though

Edited by kabel (02/28/19 04:00 AM)

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: kabel] * 1
    #25842723 -

Maybe you're just not feeling what trying to be communicated? That's okay too.


--------------------
We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: Northerner]
    #25842767 -

Northerner said:
Maybe you're just not feeling what trying to be communicated? That's okay too.


Haha maybe, I find all the microdosing threads more faddish

Edited by kabel (02/28/19 06:02 AM)

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: kabel]
    #25842788 -

kabel said:
redgreenvines said:
"the ultimate" is a marketing term
being accustomed to advertising probably drives the whole acquisitive side of this.


What would you prefer to call it? Heroic?


inappropriate waste of ambition.

i.e. daily, moment by moment efforts at awakening will make your tripping better and vice versa.
it's an effort for benefit involvement, not a purchasing decision.

try as you might you cannot acquire the ultimate, by definition, it is merely an hypnotic marketing term, or a sports gambling term.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Why the obsession with ego death? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25842790 -

Northener, you can remove the "?" from the title, i think they get it now ; )


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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