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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: cez]
    #24309636 -

To be selfless, fully enlightened, nirvana, etc. but the details are vague which should be the case if such ideas are unrealistic.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: Rahz]
    #24309890 -

How are the details vague?  The process of cultivating the understandment of those ideals are laid out rather plainly imo.

I think the highest ideals of a system usually seems unattainable for someone who's not interested in said system.

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: cez]
    #24309954 -

I used to have a lot of respect for such systems, but now I have a lot of respect for the enduring content which I can discover only for myself.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24310030 -

It sounds like the respect you had for Buddhism colored the respect you have now for the enduring content that you discover only for yourself.

Isn't that the gist of Buddhism when you take away ideals of nirvana, enlightenment and the likes?

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: cez]
    #24310033 -

The psychological aspects of various spiritual systems may be understandable but understanding a goal and getting there are two different things. This is why it's necessary to suggest trans-migratory reincarnation to explain the phenomenal failure rate when it comes to being fully realized and void of karma. I suspect life and the absence of karma are incompatible. Doesn't mean I don't have an interest. It is my interest that has lead to my observations. It doesn't seem honest to take such principles and embody them in individuals. If it's not honest then we must question the motive and/or efficacy of such things.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: cez]
    #24310117 -

cez said:
It sounds like the respect you had for Buddhism colored the respect you have now for the enduring content that you discover only for yourself.

Isn't that the gist of Buddhism when you take away ideals of nirvana, enlightenment and the likes?


yes and take away the monastery and put the sacred texts and artwork into a museum


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: Rahz]
    #24310264 -

Rahz said:
It doesn't seem honest to take such principles and embody them in individuals. If it's not honest then we must question the motive and/or efficacy of such things.


Are you suggesting Siddhartha Gautama didn't exist or the intentions of his claims/teachings were to mislead people?

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24310321 -

redgreenvines said:
cez said:
It sounds like the respect you had for Buddhism colored the respect you have now for the enduring content that you discover only for yourself.

Isn't that the gist of Buddhism when you take away ideals of nirvana, enlightenment and the likes?


yes and take away the monastery and put the sacred texts and artwork into a museum


That seems hypocritical of you and uncompassionate for those who haven't yet been able to glance at the texts like you had which helped you arrive to the level of discernment you currently enjoy.

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: cez]
    #24310351 -

I don't mean it that way
Of course people are entitled to their religious traditions and preferences, to their favorite cereals and running shoes, etc.
All I am saying is that there is no dependable school, or reliable matriculation, so you may as well begin on your own, continue on your own and end on your own taking clues from life as you experience it, rather than attempting to emulate and follow gurus.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24310377 -

Students are more likely to explore a museum than a monastery.  For that reason I agree with redgreenvines.

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: cez]
    #24310913 -

cez said:
Rahz said:
It doesn't seem honest to take such principles and embody them in individuals. If it's not honest then we must question the motive and/or efficacy of such things.


Are you suggesting Siddhartha Gautama didn't exist or the intentions of his claims/teachings were to mislead people?


There doesn't need to be a desire to mislead to be less than honest. Whether he existed and in what manner he was enlightened are different things because we only have second hand knowledge of what exactly he said and did and experienced. Buddhist sects have varying opinions about what enlightenment is.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: Rahz]
    #24311437 -

Rahz said:
cez said:
Rahz said:
It doesn't seem honest to take such principles and embody them in individuals. If it's not honest then we must question the motive and/or efficacy of such things.


Are you suggesting Siddhartha Gautama didn't exist or the intentions of his claims/teachings were to mislead people?


There doesn't need to be a desire to mislead to be less than honest.


What are his teachings if they aren't honest yet lacking an intention to mislead?

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: cez]
    #24311658 -

Buddhism is rife with misdirection. They actually have a specific word for benevolent misdirection but I don't remember what it is. But we're talking about Buddhism, not The Buddha.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: Rahz]
    #24311716 -

Rahz said:
It doesn't seem honest to take such principles and embody them in individuals. If it's not honest then we must question the motive and/or efficacy of such things.


We are still exploring this idea which pertains to the Buddha because he is said to have embodied principles which you are claiming are unattainable.

Rahz said:
cez said:
Rahz said:
It doesn't seem honest to take such principles and embody them in individuals. If it's not honest then we must question the motive and/or efficacy of such things.


Are you suggesting Siddhartha Gautama didn't exist or the intentions of his claims/teachings were to mislead people?


There doesn't need to be a desire to mislead to be less than honest.


You haven't really answered this question.  Why are his teachings/claims less than honest to you?

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: cez]
    #24311735 -

Because I don't believe in them. "He is said." Do you accept everything the Buddha supposedly said as true? Can you relieve yourself of all desire and remain alive? Do you believe your soul has migrated from body to body? Perhaps it's possible like other tales that can't be disproven, but extremely rare if so obviously. I don't "believe" in it. Why should I? It makes no sense. Carryovers from Hinduism, another system I appreciate aspects of but don't swallow hook line and sinker.

That's why Buddhism describes lesser forms of awakening in which knowledge is gained while the potential for suffering remains that are attainable, and why for the vast majority of adherents it's recommended they follow the Middle Path. It's a path, with universal law (eightfold), who's following should be done for the sake of doing it. There is no final destination in practice but it's easier to suggest there is rather than simply suggest the path is it's own reward. That is one example of benevolent misdirection.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: Rahz]
    #24311854 -

I generally agree with what you and rgv are saying, but I'm not certain that people can't relieve themselves of all desire and still be alive. 

It doesn't seem rational but the human experience in general doesn't seem rational to me.

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: cez]
    #24312135 -

Quote:
It doesn't seem rational but the human experience in general doesn't seem rational to me.


I agree with that.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: Rahz]
    #24312221 -

I love buddha and what I get from his teachings.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24312688 -

Buddha loves you too. :heart:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: Rahz]
    #24312765 -

Do you know what would be real interesting..\
\
IS if everyone here attempted to prove that they are one of the things..like messiahs Buddha's and maybe prophets or Bodhisatvas..!!


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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