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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24305541 -

I see people rejecting potential spiritual guides all the time.  Perhaps the reason why it is so easy to reject them is because they are not "in it for the money" like their potential students are.  He or she who rejects must have quite an ego, and the saint has none.  For this reason it is easy for the rejector to shirk off the initiated mind even though it is not in their best interest.  Meanwhile the saints fade in and out of the spotlight according to their own will.  They have no choice but to let the student go if they do not want to learn, even though it might not be in the student's best interest.  Only the self may know the self, which is to say there is no way for "the other" to equate itself with the self.  The other chooses not to conform to the world of the self and thereby ordains its own banishment to a world of unknowing.

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: ChRnZN]
    #24305785 -

Hmmm, I think I have a few interesting points...

We may have at least once in our lives...acted like a Buddha or a Saint..

The ultimate question is what do you want?

When you want to be a Buddha or Saint for example...its probably within reach..

The only thing is how much time will it take..

A Person could probably be a Saint instantly..just by forgiving others..

But a buddha, He had special powers and shit..like meditating for 7 days in a row..and other stuff..

Jesus the messiah..had crazy or otherwise miraculous powers as well..

So I think if you strive to attain something..eventually it will come in reach.. Unless your lying to your self..or trying to appease something in others that you cant handle or are conforming too.

I in fact want to be a Buddha..and Maybe a Messiah...but A Good Buddhist question might be, Can You/I attain that in one life time..?

Some people don't need to be Buddha's or Saints..but just want to attain immortality.. Some People probably do indeed achieve it..but I believe many people have tried and failed..

Wonder if its more the question...Am I chosen to be this role..and some thing or not, etc..


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: ChRnZN]
    #24305800 -

Is it egoic to label yourself as an Saint or Buddha? Why subject yourself to these titles, do you gain anything claiming you are either in this day and age?

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #24305917 -

BrendanFlock said:
A Good Buddhist question might be, Can You/I attain that in one life time..?



The story of Milarepa is one of great sinner to enlightened Buddha in one lifetime.


https://www.amazon.com/Life-Milarepa-Penguin-Classics-ebook/dp/B003XQEVVC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494303764&sr=8-1&keywords=the+life+of+milarepa

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #24306199 -

BrendanFlock said:
...
Wonder if its more the question...Am I chosen to be this role..and some thing or not, etc..


most definitely NOT!
being chosen is entirely dependent on supernatural imaginings.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24306936 -

Being chosen isn't a wonder but rather a reality due to natural selection, though wondering if the process is anything but impersonal seems to be wishful thinking.

Edited by cez (05/09/17 11:35 AM)

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24306950 -

redgreenvines said:
I think it relates to the dissemination of ancient fake wisdom instead of emphasizing and promoting functional parameters for the personal quest.

bad politics and probably also a dirth of people who really care.


I think it's due to such figures being viewed as perfect, something unachievable. When a role model isn't attainable it's more likely to be rejected. Such archetypes are necessary for direction but when it comes to real life examples expecting people to measure up is unrealistic.

Who want's to be a "saint"?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: Rahz]
    #24307198 -

it's the same as a prophet, messiah, buddha... though some have extra crowns or expectations from their respective cultural groups -
many good rebbe's are recounted by issac bashevis singer.
they are equal to buddhas etc.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24307470 -

Yes I know but the point is, if someone doesn't want to be a saint why would they look up to a saint unless they were deluded? Spelling out desirable values is good and well but I think such storybook characters do more harm than good, especially when it's passed as truth.

Prophets and Buddhas are rare because they don't exist. They are deceptive literary devices, sacrificing truth to get a point across. Doubious.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: Rahz]
    #24307634 -

Rahz said:
Yes I know but the point is, if someone doesn't want to be a saint why would they look up to a saint unless they were deluded? Spelling out desirable values is good and well but I think such storybook characters do more harm than good, especially when it's passed as truth.

Prophets and Buddhas are rare because they don't exist. They are deceptive literary devices, sacrificing truth to get a point across. Doubious.


What's this truth being sacrificed?

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: cez]
    #24307701 -

That were all human and can't be the ideas of perfection we conjure. That the best real examples most people have are not in books, but friends, family, older people who have learned lessons and can share, and that despite that, fucking up is the most prolific teacher of all. For most there's no substitute for fucking things up and feeling things like regret and remorse.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: Rahz]
    #24307792 -

yeah
Fail better is a great motto!
keep on keepin' on!


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #24307930 -

Buddhas aren't real? hehe.

Buddhas are the only things that are real. :smile:

A Buddha is an incarnation of God, a kind of achievement, kind of not, since we are all That, in this lifetime where the individuality has been surrendered and deconditioned out of existence permanently. Nothing is real but God, everything else is simulated, and becomes less simulated as the experiencer becomes more like God, since the world/the experience of the world is simply one's state of being. God is pure being. Becoming God is to enter Paradise.


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24308027 -

It would be nice if there was a better way. :shrug:

You laid it out well in the OP, but if the knowledge isn't well refined after 3000+ years one questions the basic capacity and or desire of humanity to learn absent personal experience.

Alternatively, one must question whether harmony is at the root of our existence.

But feel free to revise the world's collective spiritual knowledge :laugh:... I'm not being pessimistic just ambivalent.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: Rahz]
    #24308541 -

Hmmm, Philosophers exist...so we can say that they exist

So is any profession..

I think the difference between these people and Buddhas etc..is a miracle..

Or miraculous mindset..

That you see from the saints and Buddha's etc..

Other wise..we are just geared and grinding away our materialism..


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #24308808 -

light that comes through the cracks is the real thing


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #24308813 -

Quote:
I think the difference between these people and Buddhas etc..is a miracle..


I think there is a difference too.  but I wouldn't use miracle to describe it.

Quote:
Other wise..we are just geared and grinding away our materialism..


I agree with you on this.  I think the scientific mindset can be dangerous when it objectivizes everything, but look at the results....science is at the point of undoing its grip on understanding how materialistic physics really is, and how unpredictable and mysterious it is at the sub atomic level.  that kind of "grinding away at materialism" is going to give us an avenue to recast our image as something more than a mechanized biological determined system if we chose to.


--------------------


"Man is most nearly himself when he achieves the seriousness of a child at play."

-Heraclitus

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: PhantomFrequency]
    #24308903 -

the big difference is marketing.
marketing funded by royalty/politics/social upheaval (eg trump :lol:)
and marketing funded by carnal desire/acquisition (eg trump :foreheadslap:)


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: redgreenvines]
    #24308921 -

maybe today, but you can't necessarily "market" an ascetic tradition.  when you deny everything for yourself and the world, what "company" or "royalty" benefits?  at least in confucianism, there was a sense of filial piety and respect for elders no matter what that could be undertaken as law by the state (and the officials "replace" the elders).  buddhism doesn't have that.

im not saying the religion can't be used by the state as a measure of control, but I don't think the state could promote the idea of "buddha nature" without falling in on itself.


--------------------


"Man is most nearly himself when he achieves the seriousness of a child at play."

-Heraclitus

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Re: the rarity of buddhas and bodhisattvas, and of real 'saints' in any color [Re: Rahz]
    #24309140 -

Rahz said:
That were all human and can't be the ideas of perfection we conjure.


What are the ideas of perfection that are unattainable in regards to a buddha or bodhisattva?

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