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General Interest > Political Discussion
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: for silversoul7 [Re: silversoul7]
    #2310094 -

A government cannot exist for long without the support of the people.

you may want to rethink that. there are a great many governments that exist today without the support of the people. throughout history, there have been very few democratically-supported governments. government was always simply the title held by whomever could most effectively raise an army. it's all pretty irelevent though... the government is the most powerful force in the land. how it becomes that way is not important here.

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Re: for silversoul7 [Re: ]
    #2310099 -

People living under dictatorships may not like their government very much, but as long as they choose not rebel, they are supporting it.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: for silversoul7 [Re: silversoul7]
    #2310101 -

even if that were true, it doesn't change the fact that the government still is nothing more than the most powerful force in the land.

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Re: for silversoul7 [Re: ]
    #2310103 -

Even if that were true, that doesn't make it the same thing as force, as you were saying it is.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: for silversoul7 [Re: silversoul7]
    #2310111 -

it's a certain kind of force.

when you govern you enforce.

government action, policy, and decision, is always supported with force. when you feel the hand of government, it will come in the form of coercion.

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Re: for silversoul7 [Re: ]
    #2310117 -

*yawn*

read slowly:

That still does not make it the same thing as force. It is a specific kind of force.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: for silversoul7 [Re: ]
    #2310118 -

when you say that the government, through its action, grants rights, you are saying that rights are granted by force.

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Re: for silversoul7 [Re: ]
    #2310120 -

Didn't I already retract my statement about the government granting rights? If not, I'll do so now.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: for silversoul7 [Re: silversoul7]
    #2310125 -

that's a start. do people have rights?

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Re: for silversoul7 [Re: ]
    #2310141 -

mushmaster said:
that's a start. do people have rights?


Hard to say. This thread has left me in even greater confusion as to what rights are. From what I've gathered, rights = abilities - force, so I suppose so, as people have abilities which do not involve initiation of force(though I think that's up for debate). However, if we are to live in a state society, there needs to be some coersion in order to maintain that society.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: for silversoul7 [Re: ]
    #2311291 -

Well, I believe in the concept of "natural rights", but i also acknowledge that it is just a concept. It has no physical basis in reality, though the potential is there. Like "manifest destiny".

EDIT: sorry to be popping in and out of this discussion, but I have a lot of business to attend to in the "real" world.

Edited by DoctorJ (02/07/04 10:28 AM)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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