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OfflineSinistar
I Am Sinistar

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 29
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
For You Gun Haters
    #1232443 - 01/19/03 11:45 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

heres my feelings on the subject: i dont care if you dont like me having a gun. if you dont like guns, kool. your entitled to your opinions. so am i, esp when its about my rights.

lets stop fooling ourselves. neither one of the groups on this subject gives a damn about the others thoughts. but there is a difference. the guys who support the second amendment are going for the broadest rights possible. this is something the left would usually jump right behind.

bottom line: your opinions are welcome till they run against MY RIGHTS. my rights trump your opinions every single time.

i love these brady campaign toadys who obviously get off on busting guys balls just for the fact they like guns and have been raised to expect the right to own them.

ive read several of the posts here about gun control and the anti-gunners giggle like a bunch of stupid cunts with comments like 'you have how many guns? i bet your dicks small.' its in the 5 days for a gun post.

this is the level of discussion for these guys. and when you refuse to see the world through there eyes they try to beat you over the head with shit like the supreme courts rulings.

america has allowed the owning of other ppl. america locks up 750,000 ppl a year for pot infractions. america guts the constitution after 9/11, so the ppl pay the price twice. americas wages have been stagnant for the worker for 20 years. americas justice system locks up dark ppl at 13X the rate of whites. americas justice system gives slaps on the wrists to ppl who bankrupt companies ruining ppls lives. the american justice system didnt go after Bernie Ebbers when his $400 million dollar heist from worldcom just went missing. yes thats right folks, it just disappeared and no ones looking for it.

im sure other ppl have even more bullshit to say aboutht e justice system in this country. and thats why i say when you gun haters start slinging shit about court rulings:

I GIVE 2 SQUIRTS OF JIZZ ABOUT THE SUPREME COURT. ARENT THESE FUCKS THE SAME ASSHOLES THAT PUT BUSH IN OFFICE?

gun haters arent much different than racists. pro gun ppl are just another form of nigger to push around. these ppl will jump on any cause they can point to a court desicion to prove theyre right and shove it down everyones throat.

smoking,violent games, sexual games, gory games, violent TV, sexual TV, violent movies, sexual movies, guns, fast food places, violent music, sexed up popstars. all the above are the same type of bullshit these ppl love getting mouthy about. these ignorant assholes dont even get that most of them are directly against what these shitheads supposedly love more than anything: free speech.

they bitch and raise holy hell about bush even looking towards partial birth abortion, but these fucks dont mind the govt shitting on what the watch and listen to. so where exactly is the govts place in the ppls lives guys? ok to kill babies, bad to watch WWF? give me a fucking break.

ill go eye for eye against anyone on here. but a suggestion maybe?

how about we stop trying to prove which one of us is right, and focus on the stuff that brings us together instead of divide us? cause i guarntee when the govt starts to fuck up, it wont just fuck with gun owners or pro abortionists. nope, were equally as fucked then.

or we could keep fighting amoungst ourselves, letting shit like gun control polarize us until the whole system falls. not into a better system, but into full out anarchy and lawlessness. sound fun? im sure it would be until a guy with one of thise banned guns comes up and removes your brain from its pan.

all gun owners want is to keep there guns and not have the fucking govt know every gun, vcr,computer, every site visited, what you bought with credit cards ect ect.

if youve got a problem with that, maybe your the fucking problem in this country.


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I Am Sinistar

You Dont Pay A Hooker For Sex, You Pay Them To Leave.

In The City, Where Angels Fear To Hover And Devils Come To Croon, The Sex Of The Night Lets Down Her Black Narcotic Hair To A Yellow Opium Moon.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: Sinistar]
    #1232452 - 01/19/03 11:55 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

or we could keep fighting amoungst ourselves, letting shit like gun control polarize us until the whole system falls.



So instead we should just agree with you for the purpose of getting along?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,211
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: Sinistar]
    #1232459 - 01/19/03 11:59 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

There are few here more into guns and gun rights than I.
There are a few bits of information or statements wrong in your post though.
----------------------------------------
americas wages have been stagnant for the worker for 20 years


americas justice system locks up dark ppl at 13X the rate of whites(even if this were correct, you can't say whether or not crimes are comitted at a higher rate by blacks or not. Look at the survey done on the NJ State Police. Turns out blacks were speeding at a much higher rate and as such were pulled over more)


ARENT THESE FUCKS THE SAME ASSHOLES THAT PUT BUSH IN OFFICE?
(No. Federal and State election laws did that. The Supreme Court merely upheld the existing laws. Recounts done after the fact upheld the election results. Funniest part of that is that the recount the Gore team wanted gave Bush an the largest margin of victory.) Also the Supreme Court has made only one 2nd ammendment decision, that sawed off shotguns had no military use and as such were not protected by the 2nd. Which of course is still wrong but not the sweeping victory the gun grabbers claim it to be.
---------------------------------

You are correct though about the hypocritical stand many people take on the Bill Of Rights. Many seem to have a "it's ok for your rights to be trampled on as long as you leave mine alone" type of mentality. Sad really.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleG a n j a
Pictish and proud
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 7,860
Loc: Zone ate
Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: Sinistar]
    #1232489 - 01/20/03 12:13 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

You know something sinistar....i think you just converted me to your point of view.

But i will still say that maybe its the hunting aspect of guns that i dislike the most.
I see no point in shooting anything for sport.Unless its an unalive target.Or a politican.

But you make a very good argument for ownership.


--------------------
er


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 1 month, 5 days
Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: Sinistar]
    #1232490 - 01/20/03 12:13 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I used to argue against guns being legal but I now realise it is upto the individual to do what he/she sees fit. However, I believe the need to bear arms is an indicator of fear and paranoia. As a species, we need to move past these unhelpful behavioural programs urgently. But to you guys who arent ready, dont point your little ego trippin, penis extensions at me! :grin: 


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Always Smi2le


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: GazzBut]
    #1233172 - 01/20/03 08:07 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I believe the need to bear arms is an indicator of fear and paranoia.



As much as wanting health insurance is an indicator of fear and paranoia?
As much as wanting to protect against unreasonable search and seizures is an indicator of fear and paranoia?
As much as wanting the right to freedom of political speach is an indicator of fear and paranoia?

It seems to me that the ones who are suffering from the greatest everyday fear and paranoia are the ones who want to take arms out of the hands of law abiding citizens. For the record, it is not the need to bear arms which we support but the right to bear arms.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Anonymous

Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: Sinistar]
    #1233216 - 01/20/03 08:25 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I support the right of the people to keep and bear arms.  But you sinistar... are a moron.  :tongue:


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: Evolving]
    #1233241 - 01/20/03 08:32 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

As much as wanting health insurance is an indicator of fear and paranoia?

No, I have health insurance. I just don't go round packing heat.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: Xlea321]
    #1233263 - 01/20/03 08:39 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

If we are to apply the same 'logic' of the anti-gun crowd, you are afraid and paranoid of getting sick and requiring extensive medical help.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Anonymous

Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: Sinistar]
    #1233324 - 01/20/03 08:57 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

your entitled to your opinions.

and then...

bottom line: your opinions are welcome till they run against MY RIGHTS. my rights trump your opinions every single time.

Is this not a contradiction? Your opinions are welcome until they contradict mine? Your "right" to own a gun is your opinion.  Some people believe that you do not have a right to own a firearm.  That is there opinion, and they are entitled to it.

america has allowed the owning of other ppl. america locks up 750,000 ppl a year for pot infractions. america guts the constitution after 9/11, so the ppl pay the price twice. americas wages have been stagnant for the worker for 20 years. americas justice system locks up dark ppl at 13X the rate of whites. americas justice system gives slaps on the wrists to ppl who bankrupt companies ruining ppls lives. the american justice system didnt go after Bernie Ebbers when his $400 million dollar heist from worldcom just went missing. yes thats right folks, it just disappeared and no ones looking for it.

The fact that our justice system has problems does little to support your views.  I suppose that you are trying to run an argument against the fact that the Supreme Court has made some anti-gun decisions in the past.  It's just politics though. Sure, the Supreme Court and our justice system in general makes mistakes... but that does nothing towards showing that Gun Control is one of them.

gun haters arent much different than racists. pro gun ppl are just another form of nigger to push around. these ppl will jump on any cause they can point to a court desicion to prove theyre right and shove it down everyones throat.

Not much different then racists? Racists are ignorant folk who are intolerant of another persons culture, race, or ethnicity because they feel it is inferior to their own.  Anti-Gun advocates simply believe that we'd be better off as a society if only the government and criminals had guns.  They're wrong, but it's not because they hate you or me.  They don't hate gun owners, they hate guns. 

smoking,violent games, sexual games, gory games, violent TV, sexual TV, violent movies, sexual movies, guns, fast food places, violent music, sexed up popstars. all the above are the same type of bullshit these ppl love getting mouthy about. these ignorant assholes dont even get that most of them are directly against what these shitheads supposedly love more than anything: free speech.

This statement is a good example of a fallacy you run with throughout your argument.  You are attacking the people, not their ideas.  Some people are against these things you mention, and guns as well.  But we're not talking about those things, we're talking about guns.  Guns are the issue, not all that other stuff.  There are alot of people who are pro-free speech and anti-gun.  If you want to start an argument about free speech, that's a different issue.

they bitch and raise holy hell about bush even looking towards partial birth abortion, but these fucks dont mind the govt shitting on what the watch and listen to. so where exactly is the govts place in the ppls lives guys? ok to kill babies, bad to watch WWF? give me a fucking break.

Again, abortion is not the issue.  You're attacking the Left, and completely missing going against the anti-gun argument

And the rest of your post from there barely even makes sense. 

The first thing that struck me about your post was your intense anger against those you disagree with.  You resort to a childish display of name-calling.

brady campaign toadys
anti-gunners giggle like a bunch of stupid cunts
but these fucks dont mind the govt

This attitude prevents you from seeing things from the viewpoint of the opposing side, which is absolutely essential to first arriving at a valid viewpoint and then defending it.  A post like this is embarrising to level-headed gun rights advocates everywhere.  The idea about your rights being infringed upon is a crappy argument.  We live in a society, a group.  Your rights come second to the overall welfare of the group.  Anti-gun people think we'd be better off as a society if NO ONE (except the gov't and the criminals of course  :tongue:) had guns.  It's the same justification for the drug war.  Think of the whole of society, not just yourself, and you'll see where they stand.  You can then make a the arguement that gun-ownership is actually indeed GOOD for our society, instead of just throwing around insults and crap arguments.  I can argue that the 2nd Amendment in the Bill of Rights does indeed specifically give CITIZENS the right to keep and bear arms, and that there was and still is good reason for it.  Until you can do that, stop embarrising other gun-rights people with your inane posts.  :grin: 


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Anonymous

Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: ]
    #1233349 - 01/20/03 09:05 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

>Your "right" to own a gun is your opinion.

No, it's a right. Can you not read the Constitution?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: ]
    #1233355 - 01/20/03 09:06 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I have a feeling people are gonna have a field day with this post.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: Sinistar]
    #1233378 - 01/20/03 09:13 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Sinistar that's a pretty angry-sounding post you made there. I like this part:

gun haters arent much different than racists. pro gun ppl are just another form of nigger to push around

The way you adress gun-haters it sounds like they too are a kind of nigger to push around! Sweet! Sorry but I'd rather stay polarized. Not because I don't support civil rights, but because you're an angry person and you like owning weapons that are designed to kill (really nasty combo IMO). You just aren't the kind of person I want to unite with, ya creep!


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Anonymous

Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: Anonymous]
    #1233379 - 01/20/03 09:13 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

If you had read my post, you would have seen that I agree that gun ownership by civilians is indeed a right guaranteed by the 2nd Ammendment. I can back that up if anyone would like... I was simply saying that the opinion of the opposing side is that it is not a right, and so, his argument about their opinions trampling on his rights, is an empty argument... He just said, "I'm right because you're wrong" and that's it. I could say "I have a right to eat babies! what? you're opinion is that I don't have the right to do that? You are WRONG!! because you're opinion tramples on my RIGHTS!!!"... clearly bullshit.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: Anonymous]
    #1233385 - 01/20/03 09:14 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

A well regulated Militia

Can you not read the constitution?

The supreme court and federals courts have always agreed the second amendment applies to militia's not individuals.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: ]
    #1233393 - 01/20/03 09:16 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

The first thing that struck me about your post was your intense anger against those you disagree with. You resort to a childish display of name-calling.

that's fer damn sure


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Anonymous

Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: Xlea321]
    #1233418 - 01/20/03 09:22 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

A well regulated Militia Can you not read the constitution?
The supreme court and federals courts have always agreed the second amendment applies to militia's not individuals.


The National Guard was founded in 1903, hundreds of years after the Bill of Rights was written. The founding fathers were talking about the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms being essential to the security of a free state. A look at letters and papers written by them supports this. They definitely meant the civilian populace, not the army. That much is a fact, a documented, historical fact, that the Supreme Court (which has made many mistakes in the past), overlooked. Your argument is one often used by anti-gun people, but it's crap. The argument you COULD make is that although it may have been good at the time, an armed populace is no longer beneficial... I would dispute you on that one though.


Edited by Anonymous (01/20/03 10:28 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: Xlea321]
    #1233432 - 01/20/03 09:28 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mi?li?tia ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-lsh)
n.
An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers.
A military force that is not part of a regular army and is subject to call for service in an emergency.
The whole body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service.

reg?u?late ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rgy-lt)
tr.v. reg?u?lat?ed, reg?u?lat?ing, reg?u?lates
To control or direct according to rule, principle, or law.
To adjust to a particular specification or requirement: regulate temperature.
To adjust (a mechanism) for accurate and proper functioning.
To put or maintain in order: regulate one's eating habits.




Maybe you should go back and read what luvdemshrooms said in this post. Not only this, but the Bill of Rights says outright that individual PEOPLE have the right to bear arms (A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed).

Now provide me with a Supreme Court ruling that says contrary. As of yet, you have NO proof of your claims.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: ]
    #1233442 - 01/20/03 09:31 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

the right of the PEOPLE

I guess we can argue about what we "think they meant" from now until forever. Or we can simply read what the amendment says. It clearly refers to militias.

If they had meant individuals surely they would have simply said "Individuals have the right to own guns"?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: For You Gun Haters [Re: Xlea321]
    #1233455 - 01/20/03 09:38 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

OK, so you're choosing to ignore a word clearly written in the amendment (people) and ignoring the definition of another (militia).

And back to the question:

Now provide me with a Supreme Court ruling that says contrary. As of yet, you have NO proof of your claims.


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