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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: psi]
    #19383868 -

psi said:
I wonder how multi-taprooted degrafts might do in the wild after a sufficient acclimatization period. Conventional wisdom seems to be that single taproots are better for drought resistance, but I haven't seen any tests on it where someone actually transferred degrafts to the wild.

I think Anne may be talking about taking pressure off wild populations indirectly though, by producing plants in culture in greater number so that less would be harvested from the wild.


So there is answer to my question, thanks:thumbup:

It's only about people move from harvesting peyote from wild to grow their own.. Took long time to someone gives a answer for this.:bow2:

I think many peyote growers and those who consume then doesn't want to forget their ancestors traditions tho.

There are some "cults" grow peyote legally in usa for consumption in states where it's legal to grow if it's attached to religion, they have so large number or plants and decades old work behind, they can harvest some and consume them.

But yet, the desert area is so wide I bet there are still peyote plants what not a single human have seen or find.

Area of peyote habitat are bigger than most countries in the world anyway.. Also I have understand there are some control areas and specimens in the desert and people just test out how much harvesting effect the plants and how many plant survive from harvesting and produce more buttons.

I have read buttons price goes high and size goes smaller, it will indicate something about but how's things are about in mexico? does this fact only problem in usa? afaik most area where peyote grow are in mexico and it's illegal to import wild harvested peyote from mexico to usa? But that doesn't rule out the fact they can be smuggled from mexico to usa easily.

I would not be consider the peyote and it's extinction. There are enough peyote for everyone anyway, grown in greenhouse for consumption or harvested from wild. There are not much difference in potency.


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Edited by intelligentlife (01/07/14 07:33 PM)

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: psi]
    #19383876 -

psi said:
I wonder how multi-taprooted degrafts might do in the wild after a sufficient acclimatization period. Conventional wisdom seems to be that single taproots are better for drought resistance, but I haven't seen any tests on it where someone actually transferred degrafts to the wild.


For those of us like myself and ferrel, we'd actually be able to test this somewhat accurately by simply taking a short drive or planting a few in our backyard with a prepared spot since we're so close to their native hab.

Quote:
I think Anne may be talking about taking pressure off wild populations indirectly though, by producing plants in culture in greater number so that less would be harvested from the wild.


Exactly right on the money.  Her method seems to work for that purpose if that is what the grower's intentions are.  My intention is to grow beautiful and compact specimens without any regard for the quantity grown so I can't personally see myself utilizing her teks.


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:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: psi]
    #19383920 -

they acclimatize like anything else.
im always flattered you think they are magical in some way.

LED is cheap now.
excluding the LLE and chip systems ,
test boxes 5-6 are only about 500$ each complete.

the 5400k single spots are less than 50$ each,
chip lights are about 100 each , and are experimental VHO chips , and not available on the commercial market to my knowledge.
at least not on the power level we have. yet.

the LLE blue 50W , 5W x , was built for me by a physics lab,
and would cost at least 1k.


as for shapes, heres something to think about.



both of these 2 differnt strains,
both grown under IDENTICAL CONDITIONS , same age.
that should keep ya guessing.

we have pictures of all kinds of wild stuff , over many yrs.
nearly every specimen, documented thru seed and various changes over time, and the effects of various annie inspired environments.

most everything i show, is actually sorta old experiments
i sit on huge amounts of pics and data , for both cacti and fungi.
experience on all forums , has shown i can only display stuff at a certain rate..........and explain it.

im a girl with designer taste, it extends to everything i touch.

they acclimatize well ....
in mty travels, i cant just wing a farm thru customs, therefore,
ive abandoned farms in several countries , on several continents,
to local growers for care.........
they wind up repotted in gren houses, on roofs, and in indoor gardens.
no one i know of, has had any issues with them.
they are no different, than any fully hydrated lophs.

now ya know why i dont have warehouses full of giant ones, its cuz they are spread out over the globe as i move.
i can have as many as i want , anywhere i want, in a few months.
i only get attached to strains, not individuals.

when i arrive somewhere new, my global seed and pereskiopsis network, takes care of me, and in months i have a closet full.

its kinda like a curse sorta sometimes.:facepalm:


if the tek isnt for you, its not for you.
i can understand that totally.
99% of the stuff here, on both cacti and fungi forums, isnt for me either............i couldnt live with the performance values.
so, we just generate our own teks that do meet our needs.

none the less,
it  wildly generates any cactus we  have tried try it with......

Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 08:21 PM)

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
    #19384006 -

LED are still expensive compared to another lights.

IF we jump to cannabis cultivation, there are more effective lights with less money what every LED you can find.

You try to trick me. Two different strain of lophophora isn't two different species.

I mean't do you have any proof with ornamental species, mammillaria, gymnos?

Obtain one both of these species grow by nurseries, size of 3-4cm. Grow them under LED over one season and show data, if you don't have. I bet they don't grow anymore good for use as ornament.

But your tek and intentions for this are really obvious, you just need fast production of peyote flesh fast, there are no different way than consumption.

People will know your tek and do same thing to grow their own edible peyote. That's what's all about with this.

Still I want to say, don't declare LED are best for cactus, declare it's best for peyote growing for consumption purposes. These are two different things. You should not attack against ornament growers with your tek because it doesn't work with ornaments, you can try your self.

Show me nice vigorous fat trichocereus grown with LED and own roots, then I can understand why LED are best and sun light is not the way of growing cacti. But please don't mix ornamental cultivation and mass production of peyote buttons. Or if you don't purposely mix them together, make your posts more clear and answer simple questions so there are no need to argue and misunderstood another person.


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Edited by intelligentlife (01/07/14 07:50 PM)

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19384091 -

i suppose if its a contest of oliver twist grows, i lose,
that said, if ya had a dollar value over biomass equation, over time, i look fawking fan-tastic.

personally , i think you guys pay way too much to grow.
you guys burn electric like mad, use lots of space, pots, soil, lights, and then add your attrition rate.. for what , a dozen raquetballs and a trich stand?
geez.
thats like spending lots, for a shelf pet to stare at.
if im spending, i want a dynamic fast moving high output farm.



we have tested trichocereus for feasability,
along with ariocarpus, TBM's and coryphantas.

we see no point in the time, effort, space, and energy,
for a rack of cacti i can get from a friend as a gift anytime.



common sense indicates this is practical for rare small cacti,
and moronic for saguaros.

as said, annie is about conservation of rare cacti.
if your concerned with consumption, thats your projection.

its simple peeps , i develop these and other teks for my interests,
and then share em as i please.
yes i have a cool lab, but i dont really sit around thinking how i can prove anything and everything to anyone for any whim.
in annies lab, annie entertains annie first.


my claims extend to whats shown in pics , and the obvious.
at no point, am i a free research house at beck and call intelligent.
feel absolutely free to experiment yourself.

also , no trick question, strains vary............
if ya only seen a few hundred lophs , ya dont notice
after about 20k, ya notice variants.

my entire clone collection, is variants.
many selected to exploit different conditions.


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:aliendance:

Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 08:13 PM)

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
    #19384176 -

I'm not so dumb I don't understand variants of lophs.

I have actually seen huge greenhouses full of adul, small and average size peyote and variants

I will notice the difference of peyote or it's variants and know there are different habitat plants.

You don't know what I know or where I have got my advice for cultivation of ornaments.
Also I don't know what you know and we have totally different way to grow cacti.

We have totally different perspective to cacti.

One I can tell, I don't care much of what variant of habitat peyote I have or you have. Peyote is lophophora williamsii cactus species for me in my collection, nothing more, nothing less and I don't care about as long as I have peyote and I know what it is. IT doesn't make me less of a person than you if you have seen 20k seedlings and I have seen amount you don't even know.

Anyway, you don't even know me so howcome you can claim I need to see exact number of 20k peyote to notice variants, what is your understanding of variants?
I know enough to keep my plants alive, no matter of what habitat peyote or variant of peyote I have.

Also IF I don't know, I don't dare to ask from anothers but I am not so passionate about peyote I don't even care about competition of who know variants or who don't and if you do know.

Can I show you pictures of plants and you say are they common peyote or variant and if variant, what variant they are by the name?


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Edited by intelligentlife (01/07/14 08:23 PM)

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19384238 -

so defensive.

i present what i do, with pics, and declare the obvious.
we grow alot of hydro grafts, and we do alot of work under exotic lights.

we think its a great way to generate a hell of alot of rare golf balls fast.

its my personal solution to my collection.
not real big on mail, and im an action girl in the new age.
i need that tray of rare cacti, NOW, and i dont want a bunch of dirt ruining a 75$ manicure,
and i dont need alot of heat in the tropics,
and im not into a massive electric bill , for a row of bills.(pun)

as said, if its not your thing, its not.
and anyone , is welcome to research themselves different angles.

you guys do realize, others on this site, and on other forums, are working on this also...........


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:aliendance:

Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 08:36 PM)

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
    #19384287 -

The heat of traditional indoor lighting is a plus in cooler climates.
just sayin
:whip2: :cacti:

Edited by Corporal Kielbasa (01/07/14 08:38 PM)

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
    #19384307 -

its also the least efficient way to heat things.
at best ,
that argument would work for all growers above the tundra line.

LED would work in all climates.
heat and insulate your place right.
flouros , tubes, and halides, are unbearable in the tropics , or for micro farms.........

in that light, LED is universal, and the others, an oppresive handicap!

im into VHO micro farms, low energy , low footprint.

me and the maid sorta find this humorous.
our entire place is LED ,
i refuse to have anything else in the house now.

i get letters everyday, from growers that say,
" you go girl! , i live in the city, and need a VHO farm, and no way am i gonna do a greenhouse barn tek...tell me more!"

besides, who seriously is gonna have tube lights in 20 yrs........
might as well get a grip on LED now and beat the rush.:thumbup:


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:aliendance:

Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 08:45 PM)

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
    #19384338 -

How much would a 6'x6' floor area cost to set up full LED? Pimped for optimum growth that is.  Not like cheap bare bones n get by but also not experimental special orders.

Edited by Corporal Kielbasa (01/07/14 08:50 PM)

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
    #19384358 -

Quote:
you guys do realize, others on this site, and on other forums, are working on this also...........


I'm not disputing that claim as I can't possibly know who is doing what on this site or elsewhere, but if there are a good number of people on here utilizing your teks, I wish they would step forward in this thread or make their own so we can see a bigger sample of output quality from these lights and teks.  Thus far all we have to go on is you and you alone and I'd like to see a little more variety at some point.


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #19384385 -

as a range,
i do about 2 x3 . for about 400$,
not including the blue star LLE...

so, uh , plus minus , kinda sorta um .....1000$
but keep in mind, even with chip erosion, and electric cost,
it plays out cheaper than anything else over time.


super d.
my peeps read most of what i do,
plus my blog, and many are on my personal network.
they see what goes on . and what happens when i show this stuff.
XHTTL and poms peeps , are all keeping it under wraps,
only the v-tek peeps are publishing at will now.

some of em, have shown ya hints if ya were paying attention.
i suspect, there wil be a pause, and then quite a few peeps will have them all at once..........
wich is sorta humorous.


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:aliendance:

Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 08:56 PM)

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
    #19384388 -

I'm just noting that I truly was asking a genuine question. Was not doubting or demeaning anything.

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: 1234go]
    #19384418 -

your cool.

they are just like any fully hydrated loph,
and acclimatize like any other......................

the more i read back thru this thread,
the more i realize how badly you guys need LED.
even if ya grow however ya grow, ya still need LED.


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:aliendance:

Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 09:02 PM)

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: 1234go]
    #19384450 -

Quote:
some of em, have shown ya hints if ya were paying attention.


That's the thing, I have been paying attention and have noted a severe lack of participation from others utilizing these teks and lights.  I know earlier in either this thread or your other one that GGTBod is apparently using LED and posting about it on another forum but outside of him I see no indication at all that anyone else is doing anything LED related.

I'd really like to see more results from these lights, especially if the end goal is to convince me or others to start using them.  I won't be sold on them until flat compact and blue attributes are shown in lophs but again I need to stress that our goals and reasons for growing are worlds apart from one another.  I am highly doubting LED will be capable of producing what I'm looking for in cacti but I'm always open to being surprised.


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
    #19384468 -

:lolsy:

im not trying to convince you or sell you on anything.
im simply demonstrating your future lighting.

peeps reading this 20-30 yrs from now in archives,
heres your cold proof annie is a  back time traveler with alien teks:thumbup:
:aliendance:

:lolsy:

seriously.
you dont think your gonna be hugging flouros all your life,
do you ?
odds are in a decade , youll be paying pepes to get rid of em.

also guys, ya know,
if ya break a tube over a grow, its mercury poisoned.
alot of tubes, alot of time, it happens.......oops.

Edited by anne halonium (01/07/14 09:21 PM)

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
    #19384496 -

I don't hug fluoros.  I have two CFLs indoors to cover a few very expensive and prized specimens but I use the sun as my main power source for everything else I grow, not fluoros or CFL.  There's no way any indoor light at any point in the future can possibly compete with a star for energy output. :smirk:  Even if it did, I'd hate to be around when the power bill showed up in the mail.


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: SuperD]
    #19384512 -

glib,
and what works for you works for you.

those that want performance, without the heat or splash or mercury,
or energy consumption, and want  VHO micro farms......

um ,follow the LED beam.


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:aliendance:

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
    #19384567 -

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/energy/stories/should-i-buy-led-or-cfl-light-bulbs

According to tests done by the DOE, it looks like LED will overtake fluoros in about 2 years time if all goes as planned for Philips.  Currently LED appears no better then CFL, and most likely worse due to cost.  Of course there is still the advantage of no mercury if an LED bulb happens to break but that hardly seems like a worthwhile tradeoff until that newer generation of bulbs is released.


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Re: As George Bernard Shaw once said [Re: anne halonium]
    #19384590 -

LEDs are far behind other lighting technology. The ONLY thing that they do well on, and all of their users seem to brag about, is the power consumption.

I've been working in Hydroponics supply stores, giving advice on the retail floor, as well as working for other Hydroponics companies that make products/equipment for growing. NO ONE that works in the Hydroponics industry will say anything good about LEDs for Cannabis, and anyone that is using them isn't happy with their yield. We sold them at the last Hydro store I worked at, and even partially owned the company we sold, and we STILL wouldn't even recommend them to anyone. Someone looks at it and we would say "Trust me man, you don't want that"

Sound familiar? Basically you're doing the exact same thing, yield-wise, to Lophs. We keep telling you that you likely don't have actual mass and you keep saying over and over that you do. The only true test would be to take a bunch of own-roots or at the very least, outdoor grafted Lophs, dehydrate them completely cracker dry and then compare them to the exact same wet weight of your HTTL grafts. I guarantee you the actual mass created will differ.

If it doesn't work for Cannabis, it's not going to work for Cacti, which need just as much if not more sun to grow ideally (Blue hue, compact, natural-looking)

You are right Anne that they disproved the whole "grafts not producing alkaloids" thing, but that still says absolutely nothing about actual density created with grafts, particularly your HTTL grafts.

LEDs have come a long way, I will give you that. But no one knows more about spectrum and lighting than people at a Hydroponics store and every manager I've ever had in the Hydro industry has pretty much laughed at people when they want to set up with LEDs. They're just not there yet, so stop acting like they are this super new technology that is the best kept secret in the world. Noobs come into Hydro stores every day talking about "I'm thinking about going with LEDs", trust me... And every day, super-experienced Hydroponics' store employees tell them that they are pretty much garbage.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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