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Offlinejoeinc
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what do shrooms survive on?
    #1779136 - 08/04/03 08:05 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I'm just curious... What is it that mushrooms feed on? I guess my question is... if some mad scientist was trying to formulate the ultimate murshroom nutrient solution, what would be in it? I know what the common nutrients for substrates are but what I'm wondering is: What is in all of these grains/composts that the shrooms feed on???? Nitrates?? the grain itself? a combination of the two? or something else? Obviously light, humidity, temperature and fresh air are important elements...but lets face it ... when the nutrients are gone... so are the shrooms


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: what do shrooms survive on? [Re: joeinc]
    #1779693 - 08/04/03 11:34 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

carbohydrates, proteins, minerals; stuff like that. You're question's a good one, but there's no way to just figure out the "best" substrate there is to use. The best thing you can really do is put it on a media lacking certain things to find out what it really needs to what extent.

--
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InvisibleFiend_13
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Registered: 07/13/03
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Re: what do shrooms survive on? [Re: micro]
    #1779863 - 08/05/03 12:30 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

To bad you cant just put that stuff in a spoon and feed it to the danm cakes?


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OfflineSev
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Registered: 06/06/03
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Re: what do shrooms survive on? [Re: Fiend_13]
    #1783426 - 08/06/03 12:23 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Fiend_13 said:
To bad you cant just put that stuff in a spoon and feed it to the danm cakes?




Actually, you do. It's call BRF, or poo, or grain, or compost...;)


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Invisibleshroomophile
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Re: what do shrooms survive on? [Re: joeinc]
    #1786572 - 08/06/03 10:59 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

It depends on the specific shroom.Woodies need wood.dungies need dung,meadows needs straw.Learn all you can about the natural shroom and the pieces come together.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: what do shrooms survive on? [Re: shroomophile]
    #1787638 - 08/07/03 09:23 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

cubies will colonize and eat damn near anything organic, it seems, as long as there's enough water and certain basic nutes like starch, sugar, carbs, proteins, minerals.
they aren't very picky eaters.
but they don't do as well if the food is too concentrated, rich.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: what do shrooms survive on? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1787668 - 08/07/03 09:50 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

> but they don't do as well if the food is too concentrated, rich

Though a lot of other ogranisms, that we call contamination, love food which is concentrated, rich. Something to keep in mind when you are having contam problems.


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InvisibleDidjeridoo
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Re: what do shrooms survive on? [Re: Seuss]
    #1789825 - 08/07/03 09:19 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"carbohydrates, proteins, minerals; stuff like that. You're question's a good one, but there's no way to just figure out the "best" substrate there is to use. The best thing you can really do is put it on a media lacking certain things to find out what it really needs to what extent."

I absolutely agree with Micro. Here are some basic guidelines that may help you out;

For a Carbon source add 2 treaspoons of dextrose (corn sugar) to each pint jar of substrate. This WILL do wonders for potency, but you must be careful of this much sugar carmalizing on the bottom of your jar :frown:  Use any grain you wish for the grain substrate (I favored whole long grain brown rice), but keep the ratio of carbohydrates to protiens about 7:1. That is, if the grain has 4 gm. protien, it should have about 28 gm. carbohydrates too.

For a Nitrogen source 'shrooms are suppose to favor the amino acid Gycine. But avoid crushing up and adding Glycine 'vitamin pills' to the substrate as they often contain fair amounts of magnesium sterate also. The grain Amaranth reportedly contains ALL essential amino acids (complete protien) and may be an excellent additive to mix with rice and corn cobb bedding as a substrate. Avoid using Soy Beans as they are TOO high in Nitrogen and you will have little or no growth. One of the experimental substrate jars that Anno was doing was made from cat food. IRC it was disposed of early on for showing no signs of growth. I believe this was soley due to the high amount of protien (Nitrogen) in cat food. Of course dung (in moderation) is great in your substrate formulation.

With regards to the addition of minerals, some thoughts... read in a mycology text once that sulfur (as in Gypsum=CaSO4) is not only used as a buffer but also in the metabolism of the mushroom. Chalk(CaCO3) is a ph buffer. Consider using a small amount of granulated Kelp to provide trace minerals and salts.

Vermiculite, crushed cork and corn cobb bedding have all been touted as great matrices for the mycelium. I used to (when I grew) prefer the corn cobb bedding for price, availability and the ability too hold not only air but also water and release it slowly into the mycelium as needed. Corn cobb bedding steeped in manure tea ROCKS as a matrix.

...good luck in your cultivating endeavors :smile:

 


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: what do shrooms survive on? [Re: Didjeridoo]
    #1789857 - 08/07/03 09:28 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

add 2 treaspoons of dextrose (corn sugar) to each pint jar of substrate. This WILL do wonders for potency,




actually, studies indicate an inverse correlation between free sugars and potency, the more sugar present, the less the potency.
within bounds, of course. a little certainly does no harm.


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Invisibleshroomophile
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Re: what do shrooms survive on? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1789986 - 08/07/03 10:08 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I read somewhere that dextrose and glycine make a more potent shroom


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InvisibleDidjeridoo
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Re: what do shrooms survive on? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1790005 - 08/07/03 10:11 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"actually, studies indicate an inverse correlation between free sugars and potency, the more sugar present, the less the potency."

Hmmmmm?  I was thinking of the article by C.B. Gold In "The Mushroom Entheogen". Please see the 'Conclussion' of this article for the sentence, "The next article on the environmental and nutritional influences on the growth and biosynthesis of psilocybin in P. cubensis will make use of this test extensively.". That next article in the series that C.B. Gold wrote looked at the work of;

"Catalfomo, P. and V.E. Tyler, Jr. "The Production of Psilocybin in Submerged Culture by Psilocybe cubensis." (Abstracted in part from a dissertation submitted to the Graduate School of the University of Washington by Philip Catalfomo in partial fulfillment of the requirements for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy.) Lloydia 27(1): 52-63 (1964)." among others and then he repeated/varified the results himself.

IRC the a sugar made from Scarab Beetles was the best utilized Carbon source followed by Maltose(?), then by by Dextrose. Given the differences in cost and avalability versus potency increase, Dextrose won decisively.

Another aspect of potency that C.B. Gold explored in that same article was the much discussed use of Tryptamine added to the substrate (J. Gartz). In short it worked great! But given the relatively high cost and limited (errr... watched) availability of Tryptamine concluded it was simpler and more economical to use Dextrose and eat more of the 'shrooms.

The article on "the environmental and nutritional influences" used to available for reading online back in the mid to late '90's. But haven't seen it around since :frown: Hippie, do you remember 'Cowboy's web site' ??? it was around that time sir.
 


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: what do shrooms survive on? [Re: Didjeridoo]
    #1790033 - 08/07/03 10:15 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i remember cowboy and his site,
i believe i read the study i mentioned in 'psilocybin mushrooms of the world' by stamets, et.al.
and as everyone knows,
stamets is god.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: what do shrooms survive on? [Re: Hippie3]
    #1790436 - 08/07/03 11:57 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Didjeridoo -- do you think adding glycine would help create a more specific substrate for cubensis taking into account substrate C:N ratio and stuff like that? I just ask because I have bottles of it (prolly ACS reagent grade) at work from years ago....

I'm thinking of it more in an agar media....

--
Micro


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(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


Edited by micro (08/07/03 11:58 PM)


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InvisibleZildjian
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Re: what do shrooms survive on? [Re: joeinc]
    #1795003 - 08/09/03 12:11 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Man, a few weeks ago i emptied some contaminated wheat into my compost bin. About a week or so later i emptied the compost outside and found a piece of colonised pasta at the bottom of the bin with a few grains stuck to it.

I've decided to grow some shrooms on pasta, just to see if it works or not, i can imagine there wouldn't be much benefit in doing such a thing, probably just difficult to shake and what not, but it'd be fun just for the novelty of it you know.


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Offlinerealrasta
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Re: what do shrooms survive on? [Re: Zildjian]
    #1795946 - 08/09/03 06:35 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

actually ive done the pasta thing its fun. i tried bleached pasta. and spinach pasta boiled it in pasturized poo water. bam its messy but fun. the key is to leave them a little stiff so when you pc they dont fall apart.


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Offlinejoeinc
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Re: what do shrooms survive on? [Re: realrasta]
    #1800235 - 08/11/03 02:04 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

this thread has made for some interesting reading..... the original reason for posting this was because I was looking at my food dehydrator and was thinking about what types of vegetables/other foods I could put in there and use to make a substrate.... Here's what I'm thinking....
Thoroughly dehydrate some type of vegetable...broccoli?? spinach?? wheat grass?? peas?? And make some type of vegetable flour to replace the brf in the pf tek
to compare yeild...

Another idea was chick pea flour...flour made from lentils or some type of dry bean...
I'm just basicly wondering what is it about the nutrients in BRF
that make it work?



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InvisibleDanKnugget
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Re: what do shrooms survive on? [Re: joeinc]
    #1802018 - 08/11/03 04:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

all the pasta talk is making me hungry. . . :eyemouth: im gonna go eat spaghetti. later


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