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OfflineHumidity
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Useful Substrate Supplements
    #518145 - 01/12/02 05:25 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Vitamins

"Some fungi need to be supplied with one or more vitamins, the most common requirements being for thiamine (vitamin B1), biotin, or both. These vitamins play essential roles in basic cellular metabolism, so the fungi that do not synthesize them will almost certainly obtain them from the natural habitat. However, mulitple vitamin requirements are rare in fungi." Modern Mycology, J.W.Deacon

Psilocybe fungi may or may not have a deficincy to either of these vitamins, but if they do it may be benifital to add them to a subsrate to enhance growth. The rye/birdseed/rice already contains some of these vitamins, but it may not contain as much as the organism needs.


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_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


Edited by Humidity (01/12/02 12:53 PM)


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OfflineHumidity
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: Humidity]
    #518413 - 01/12/02 01:18 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Nitrogen

"Of all the mineral nutrients, nitrogen is required in the largest amounts so it can be the limiting factor for fungal growth in natural habitats. Fungi do not fix atmospheric nitrogen as some bacteria do, but the can use many other forms of nitrogen and we can understand this most easily by considering the normal pathways for assimiation of nitrogen which is similar for all fungi:
Nitrate-->Nitrite-->Ammonium-->Glutamate-->Glutamine
All fungi can use amino acids as a nitrogen source. Often they need only one amino acid such as glutamic acid or asparagine, and from this they can produce the other amino acids by transamination reactions."
Modern Mycology J.W. Deacon

Glutamic Acid and Asparagine are not sold in vitamin stores, but since fungi can use any amino acid as a nitrogen source any amino acid sold at vitamin stores will work. A multi amino pill might be the best. Fungi spend time and energy making and converitng amino acids which are nessisary parts of metabolism. By giving them a amino acid rich sustrate the nitrogen content will be increased and the organism may be able to save time and energy on some of the conversions.


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"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


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Invisible00Zen
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: Humidity]
    #519541 - 01/13/02 04:43 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Aside from the addition of the essential nutrients needed for efficient growth as touched upon in the Enhanced Psilocybin Production post the addition of glucuronic acid and homobrassinolide have shown to stimulate mycelial and fruit growth.

Glucuronic acid and salicylic acid were shown to stimulate Lentinus edodes fruiting (1).
The growth promoting effect of glucuronic acid at 2% may be that of an additional carbon source (2).

The strong growth promoting effect of pollen at 2% and 10% is possibly the effect of homobrassinolide, a brassinosteroid hormone, which was detected at concentrations of 100 ng/g in pollen (3). 10% pollen in a medium would correspond to a hormone concentration of 10 ?g/l, a level which has been shown to enhance the growth of Psilocybe cubensis (4).

Glucuronic acid at 2% had a weak growth promoting effect and pollen at 2% and 10% had a strong growth promoting effect (2).

-Zen

References:

1. "A chemically defined medium for the fruiting of Lentinus edodes." G. F. Leatham. Mycologia 75: 905 (1983)
2. "Attempted Molecular Cloning of Enzymes from the Psilocybin Biosynthesis Pathway in Psilocybe tampanensis" Neils Jensen, University of Regensburg Graduate Thesis: 50, 23 (1999)
3. "Brassinosteroids." G. Adam, V. Marquardt. Phytochem. 25: 1787 (1986)
4. "Growth-promoting effect of a brassinosteroid in mycelial cultures of the fungus Psilocybe cubensis." J. Gartz, G. Adam, H.-M. Vorbrodt. Naturw. 77: 388 (1990)


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Offlinegray1
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: 00Zen]
    #520286 - 01/14/02 11:42 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

please post the text to the reference concerning attempted molecular cloning of enzymes from the p[silocybin biosynthesis pathway... by neils jurgen, or direct me as to where i could find it myself.
thank you.
gray1


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OfflineHumidity
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: 00Zen]
    #520333 - 01/14/02 12:24 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

In reply to:

Glucuronic acid and salicylic acid were shown to stimulate Lentinus edodes fruiting (1).




Shiitake (Lentinus Edodes) Mushrooms are not the same as Psilocybe Mushrooms and may not have the same response to glucuronic acid and salicylic acid. If these supplements are easily available it might be worth a try and see if they have a positive effect, but I would not go out of my way to get them.

As for Substrate Supplements in general, I would not add a multipurpose vitamin pill such as Centrum that contains many, many diffent things in it. Some of these may actually harm the organism and make things harder for it to grow. Those pills contain many trace metals that may be harmful in excessive amounts.


--------------------
_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


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Offlinegray1
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: Humidity]
    #520462 - 01/14/02 02:54 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

also, vitamins like mega men from gnc, the ones from solgar, etc... often have many many times the rda of some vitamins and minerals, often in the thousands of %, and this is for a human body with nutritional needs far surpasing a sedentary fungus, so if a mineral or vitamin is toxic in a smal amount, be careful about how much of it you're making available to the organism by grinding up a few mega vitamins.


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Anonymous

Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: gray1]
    #520468 - 01/14/02 02:58 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I use one drop of SUPERTHRIVE per gallon of substrate.
Works for me


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Offlinegray1
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: ]
    #520482 - 01/14/02 03:13 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

what's superthrive?


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Invisible00Zen
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: gray1]
    #521136 - 01/15/02 01:53 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Neils Jensen is brilliant and his paper is remarkable. He's posted his entire research thesis in an 11meg .RTF you can download his paper in a 3 meg .ARJ volume from:

http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/gregory/1042/index.html

This research is amazing. He even managed to gentically swap enzyme pathways from psilocybe to yeast and E. coli.
Unfortunately the tryptamines seem to produce a toxic effect in the yeast culture. I'm a little unclear on the results for E. coli.

This report also contains alot of information useful in deducting the nutrient needs of a few psilocybe species.
The authors lab procedures are highly advanced, performed in a university laboratory, and stunningly implemented.
Neils is a german biologist and can even be contacted directly from his website.

-Zen


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Offlinegray1
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: 00Zen]
    #521374 - 01/15/02 05:21 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

that link appears to be temporarily down, any way you could do some cut and paste into this form or email me an attachment?


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Offlinefresh357
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: gray1]
    #521588 - 01/15/02 09:17 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

So lets say that I wanted to up the overall health of my shrooms, but i dont want to go all out, id just like to add some thiamine....could I just crush up some store bought vitamins and include them in substrate?


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OfflineHumidity
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: fresh357]
    #521635 - 01/15/02 10:02 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, that is wat I was trying to get across. It might be benifitial to a add Thiamin, Biotin and a Amino Acid multipill like this one that are available at any vitamin/supplement center. These are by no means nessisary, but adding them might improve overall growth.


--------------------
_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


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OfflineMattycelium
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: Humidity]
    #521664 - 01/15/02 10:32 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

TwinLab makes a liquid form of amino acids...No flavor additives... It would be a lot easier than crushing up the pills, plus you could mix it up with the water and would absorbed throughout the substrate. Any commets?


--------------------
the cubensis planet is full of magical fruits


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OfflineHumidity
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: Mattycelium]
    #522266 - 01/16/02 12:31 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)



Description: Amino Fuel is an easily digested protein with pharmaceutical grade peptide bonded free amino acids that may be helpful in preventing muscle breakdown and increasing muscle mass.

Form: Liquid

Ingredients: Calories...104, Protein (Amino-Acids)...15gm, (15000 mg), Carbohydrates...10gm, Fat..less than 1gm, Cholesterol...0, Typical-Amino Acid Profile per serving, L-Alaine...1200mg, L-Arginine...1100mg, L-Aspartic Acid...1240mg, L-Carnitine...25mg, L-Cystine...91.9mg, Glycine...3200mg, L-Glutomic Acid...2040mg, L-Histidine...160mg, L-Isoleucine..230 mg*, L-Leucine..900 mg*, L-Lysine...880mg*, L-Methionine...185mg*, L-Phenylalamine...400mg*, L-Proline...2130mg*, L-Serine...540mg, L-Threonine...480mg*, L-Tryptophan**...82mg*, L-Tyrosine...200 mg, L-Valine...520mg* [* The eight essential amino acids], [** The L-Tryptophan in this product is naturally present in the protein, It is not added or manufactured] B-Complex Vitamins & Lipotropics: Vitamin B-1...25 mg, Vitamin B-2...25mg, Vitamin B-3...30mg, Vitamin B-6...4mg, Vitamin B-12...12mg, Pantothenic Acid...30mg, Folic Acid...100mg, Biotin...10mg, PABA...2mg, Choline Bitartrate...100mg, Inositol...100mg

Contains: Stress B-complex vitamins and Lipotropic factors (fat metabolizers) Choline and Inositol, plus a rich source of energizing complex carbohydrates from grains and pure crystalline fructose

Almost everything in this looks GREAT, but I am not sure what "Lipotropic factors (fat metabolizers) Choline and Inositol" will do. Everything else in there looks fabulous.

You can order that stuff here or just get it at your local GNC.


--------------------
_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


Edited by Humidity (01/16/02 05:21 PM)


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OfflineMattycelium
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: Humidity]
    #522298 - 01/16/02 12:48 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Cool well with that, will start some jars and let you know how things work out....Thanx


--------------------
the cubensis planet is full of magical fruits


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OfflineEvilGir
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: Mattycelium]
    #524183 - 01/18/02 06:48 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I noticed one of the ingridents was L-Tryptophan isnt this a one step behind percursor for diffrent tryptamines including DMT. And if so couldnt this increas alkaloid levels in the mushroom.


--------------------
Fighting the man the best way I can.


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OfflineHumidity
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: EvilGir]
    #524425 - 01/18/02 12:49 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

This has been a subject of great debat. Many people claim that they have added "L-Tryptophan" to there mushroom substrate and had no results, but L-Tryptophan has been off the market for many years now.
What went wrong? In 1989 there was an outbreak of a flu-like illness called "eosinophilla-myalgia syndrome"(EMS), which was tracked to a single batch of L-tryptophan manufactured in Japan. (Article). A year later in 1990 the FDA banned L-Tryptophan. (This was approximately when the World Wide Web was established so I doubt the shroomery was around before it was banned)
Everyone that has claimed to have added it most likely added 5-hydroxy-tryptophan which is commonly sold and labeled as L-Tryptophan.

L-Tryptophan might be available overthecounter in other countries, but not in the US or Canada.
I personnaly think that adding L-Tryptophan would inrease the potency of mushrooms, mabey not as dramatically as adding Tryptamine HCl, but it would increase it a little bit. Tryptophan is normally produced by the organism is small amounts, but it is tightly controlled by feedback inhibition in the metabolism. This means that when a certain amount of Tryptophan is produced it binds to the enzime that created it and stops more from being produced (it cuts itself off). This limits the total amount of Tryptophan produced by the organism thus limiting the total amount of psiloc(yb)in.


--------------------
_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


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Offlinefresh357
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: Humidity]
    #524544 - 01/18/02 02:48 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

but the question is would the mushroom process the L tryptophan into the said alkaloids? I am reminded of the question we used to get around here: "If i add weed to my substrate my shrooms will make you trip and get you stoned too right?"


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Offlinegray1
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: fresh357]
    #524622 - 01/18/02 04:09 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

the us/canada ban on l-tryptophan also most likely has political and economical issues as well, and that one bad batch was a convenient excuse for fda action: l-tryp. and 5hydroxy tryp supplementation can modulate and raise serotonin levels and therefore be used with antidepressant psycho-activity: not good for the pharmaceutical companies making prozac etc...

experimenting is all good, but it brings us back to the qestion that won't go away: how will we quantitatively measure an increase in psilos based on substrate supplementation accurately and repeatedly? without this, everything is subjective (very subjective considering that you'll be making that judgement while in an altered state)


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OfflineHumidity
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Re: Useful Substrate Supplements [Re: gray1]
    #525440 - 01/19/02 11:51 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

There really is no way of actually measuring the amounts, because no home grower has any of the equipment to do so, and most llikely does not have access to it either (at work, school, ect).

The best way to do it would be to grow two batches at the same time use a clone so it is the same strain in all of your jars. Half of your jars will be substrate enhanced and the other half will not, make sure you know which is which. Next you will grow and harvest all of you muchrooms keeping track of which ones the came from (kepp them seperate). Prepare for usage by drying. Then here is the fun part. You measure out two equal doses of the muchrooms. You label them and give them to a friend. You tell your friend to give you one of the doses and not tell you which one it is, only he will know. Take the other dose a week later. You can then make a judement if one was stronger than the other. Then you can find out from your friend which one was substrate enhanced, and which was not. You can do this with a group of friends, each getting from different bags, but recorded by one person that is not participating. This way you will not affect the results, because you will not know which ones you have take until you have made you choice about which was more potent.


--------------------
_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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