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Offlineticktock
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Re: Chromosome Cowboy [Re: ryan]
    #3394752 - 11/21/04 11:05 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Please excuse a newbie for butting in, but this is something that I have been thinking about.

If you want to produce bigger chickens, you weigh the chickens and breed the largest only. Selecting for the most potent mushrooms would mean having a way to "weigh" the potency and allowing only the most potent to reproduce.

From what I have read, measurements of "magic" come up only "yes" or "no". You could run your samples through a human mind/body, and try to come up with a scale. You would have to preserve viable samples of each tested strain. This would have to go on for hundreds or thousands of generations. You would have to use the same human, under the same conditions, with the same dosage. A human mind is not easily calibrated.

Then again, there may be a way to wipe a cotton swab across a mushroom and determine the potency. If so, I have not discovered it. Please correct me.


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: Chromosome Cowboy [Re: ticktock]
    #3395045 - 11/22/04 12:11 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Still, bioassay to determine potency is subjective and depends on alot more than just alkaloid content. To determine potency in this way would be extremely unreliable unless there was a large variation in actives present between the different samples. Even in such a case, the results would not be accurate as it is still subjective. You could assume that one sample is more "potent", but to pin down how much more would be impossible.


The only true, reliable way would be chemical analysis...


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Offlineticktock
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Re: Chromosome Cowboy [Re: ATWAR]
    #3396229 - 11/23/04 01:00 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Exactly. It's not worth that. At best you might come up with a strain that feels like 20 grams when you only ate 15. It's easy to eat an extra 5 grams. Better to work on faster/better fruiting, or a strain that does well at lower temperatures. JMO


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OfflineGordoSmith
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Re: Chromosome Cowboy [Re: ticktock]
    #3398571 - 11/23/04 03:29 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Thats what I've been thinking about.. I'd like to go from vermiculite/brf to full shrooms in a week.. Why don't we find out another substrate or chemical that helps shrooms grow? Just like if you wanted to grow plants tall, fast.. Miracle grow, why not make a "miracle grow" for mushrooms?


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Chromosome Cowboy [Re: GordoSmith]
    #3398651 - 11/23/04 03:48 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Does miracle grow cause Cannabis to go from seeds to buds in 1 week?


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Invisibleryan
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Re: Chromosome Cowboy [Re: Anno]
    #3408722 - 11/25/04 06:39 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

bioassy is certainly not the only means. You can pick up a photospectrometer from universities used pretty cheap. Soak powdered mushrooms in methanol (or other standard solvent) and check for the degree of absobtion at the wavelengths for psilocybin and psilocin


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Offlineticktock
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Re: Chromosome Cowboy [Re: Asante]
    #3408803 - 11/25/04 06:59 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Isn't that just going to tell you that the substances are present? If so, you still wouldn't know if one sample was more potent than the next. You are still sailing without a compass, right?


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Invisibleryan
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Re: Chromosome Cowboy [Re: ticktock]
    #3422744 - 11/29/04 01:18 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

no, you can measure the % absorbtion. The higher the % the higher the content. If you could get ahold of a pure standard you could even figure out how much you have


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OfflineSinisteruproar
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Re: How to CREATE new kinds of Shrooms. (For Real!) [Re: Asante]
    #3429845 - 11/30/04 10:44 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

got any pics to proove your theory?


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Offline4hodmt
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Re: Chromosome Cowboy [Re: ticktock]
    #3430027 - 11/30/04 11:22 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ticktock said:
Please excuse a newbie for butting in, but this is something that I have been thinking about.

If you want to produce bigger chickens, you weigh the chickens and breed the largest only. Selecting for the most potent mushrooms would mean having a way to "weigh" the potency and allowing only the most potent to reproduce.

From what I have read, measurements of "magic" come up only "yes" or "no". You could run your samples through a human mind/body, and try to come up with a scale. You would have to preserve viable samples of each tested strain. This would have to go on for hundreds or thousands of generations. You would have to use the same human, under the same conditions, with the same dosage. A human mind is not easily calibrated.

Then again, there may be a way to wipe a cotton swab across a mushroom and determine the potency. If so, I have not discovered it. Please correct me.






you could do GC/MS testing, but that costs a lot. unless u hav adequate equipment (i think its chromatography equipment, but im not sure, i think the machine analyzes heated vapours?).



EDIT: i was right! its gc/ms stands for gas chromotography mass spectronomy. u get a minute (seriousllllyyyy small) amount of sample, and dissolve it in a great solvent. then u heat the gasses and analyze them with chromatogrophy and by judging the masses of different molecules of the mixture. this is read out on a chart with atomic weight on one axes, and amount found in sample.


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Edited by 4hodmt (11/30/04 11:32 PM)


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Offlineamyloid
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Re: Chromosome Cowboy [Re: ticktock]
    #3430164 - 11/30/04 11:46 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

>You could run your samples through a human mind/body, and try to come up with a scale.

not really, there are many factors that are involved in tripping, and i wouldn't take someones word for it that one sample is slightly more potent then another... this is what we are dealing with, small fluxations of active chemicals in differnt samples....wether its the strains genetics, the substrate it was grown on, the environment it was exposed to, or the tolerance of the person who is experiencing it... its just way too uncertain to make judgements off of. just considering tolerance alone, do you really think you will be able to capture the level of expereince from one trip to another that occurs much much later.... the last time you ate, your current health, shit even the setting your in effects the trip you experience, all these and the laundry list of others are too many factors that need to be controlled. and without the ability to scientifically communicate or record your current state makes it nearly impossible to compare one experience to another.


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"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
-Al Einstein


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Offlinepsilocybeen
Registered: 01/05/05
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Mutants. [Re: amyloid]
    #3587792 - 01/06/05 07:21 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

My thoughts (being a geneticist):

The critics who say that finding a mutation which increases psilocybin content are correct in their belief that such a thing would be exceedingly rare. But, rare can happen, and two years seems like a sufficient amount of work to isolate a good mutation.

I'd say that the liklihood of finding an enhancing mutation through any of the routes so far mentioned (UV, mutagens, etc) could work, but the screening is very intensive. A much easier route (easier meaning more effective) would be to simply insert genes involved in psilocybin production into already potent strain through transgenic insertion. Most fungi should adapt readily to this type of treatment, I suspect, given the high degree of genetic manipulability of brewer's yeast (a highly studied fungus).

Any thoughts?


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InvisibleShroomOmatic
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Re: How to CREATE new kinds of Shrooms. (For Real!) [Re: tomldp]
    #3587979 - 01/06/05 09:44 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

if i messed with that stuff i prob screw up and accidently make a nuke and blow my neighborhood up be a bunch of mutants running around.


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Offlineticktock
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Re: Mutants. [Re: Asante]
    #3588325 - 01/06/05 11:36 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Good idea, but I can't see it happening in the real world. That sort of thing takes money. Money comes from investors. Investors are betting on making more money from the finished product.

Let's say that the potency can be doubled by gene splicing. Perhaps the product would be worth twice as much, for a while. Once the spores are out in the public, everyone will be growing them. There goes your advantage.

Then again you might just want to do the thing for the sake of doing it. In that case I'll be the first to offer a great big "Thank You!".:thanx:

Has a magic mushroom genome been mapped?


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OfflineZeroArmy27
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Registered: 09/01/04
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Re: Mutants. [Re: ticktock]
    #3588556 - 01/06/05 12:58 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

i don't think the human body would work for a few reasons...

the human body just isn't a great indicator of potency. set, setting, mindset, what you ate, how long ago you ate it, amount eaten... heck, potency varies within the same growing container from mushroom to mushroom...

genetic design of a mushroom? go for it.


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"a monkey would fuck you up if you tried to put it in a autoclave" - Psychoslut

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