Quote:

A 62-year-old man visiting Chicago from Korea and walking a dog on the West Side suffered a graze wound to the head in a shooting today.
The man was walking near Ashland Avenue and Warren Boulevard about 9:45 a.m. when he heard a gunshot and hit the ground to avoid being hurt. A visitor from South Korea, the man was walking his dog near or in Union Park when he was shot.
The man suffered a graze wound to the head and went to Rush University Medical Center, said News Affairs Officer Robert Perez. The man told police he did not see his attacker or know where the shot came from, leading Police to suspect  that Ninjas were involved in the attack. Police refused to stated if they believed they were white or black Ninjas

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Prisoner#1 said:

japan, a land that's virtually banned private gun ownership now seeks more
gun control, seems we're being led astray about the violence in japan

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of course it's not as though you need a gun to commit mass murder

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but yeah...you just keep believing

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Prisoner#1 said:

withoutawire said:

How's chicago's murder rate doing btw? Five hundred and how many homicides last year?

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513 murders in chicago in 2012, the supreme court shot down their gun ban but
the city dragged their feet on changing the laws, they recently had another
case where they were forced to change the laws to allow concealed carry but
they have about 140 more days to finalize it

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Mafeki said:

Quote:

1-3 Guns are not used millions of times each year in self-defense

We use epidemiological theory to explain why the "false positive" problem for rare events can lead to large overestimates of the incidence of rare diseases or rare phenomena such as self-defense gun use. We then try to validate the claims of many millions of annual self-defense uses against available evidence. We find that the claim of many millions of annual self-defense gun uses by American citizens is invalid.

Hemenway, David. Survey research and self-defense gun use: An explanation of extreme overestimates. Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology. 1997; 87:1430-1445.

Hemenway, David. The myth of millions of annual self-defense gun uses: A case study of survey overestimates of rare events. Chance (American Statistical Association). 1997; 10:6-10.

Cook, Philip J; Ludwig, Jens; Hemenway, David. The gun debate's new mythical number: How many defensive uses per year? Journal of Policy Analysis and Management. 1997; 16:463-469.

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http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/


Most purported self-defense gun uses are gun uses in escalating arguments and are both socially undesirable and illegal

Facts

Firearms are used far more often to intimidate than in self-defense.

Guns in the home are used more often to intimidate intimates than to thwart crime.

Adolescents are far more likely to be threatened with a gun than to use one in self-defense.

Across states, more guns = more female violent deaths

Across high income countries more guns = more female homicide deaths.

The list is endless

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Patlal said:

As for this comment: "wasnt it you that made the appeal to authority and here now you're saying we shouldnt believe", I have no clue what you are talking about.

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koods said:

There s more regulation on cars, food, drinks, and air than there are on guns. Do you know how much bigger the FDA and the dept. of Transportation  are than the ATF. Do you know it is illegal to put data on gun purchases into a computer? Lets get real. There can't be a slippery slope because there is a 2nd amendment, although if gun owners continue to be almost completely intransigent about doing anything constructive and gun crimes continue like they are, eventually people will demand it be repealed.

Pris, anything involving the way people die or are injured is a standard part of epidemiology.

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That's because "gun control" isn't going to reduce crime. Taking guns away from law abiding citizens isn't how we fix an poverty and mental health issue. Once these rights are taken away they are not given back until the next revolution.


Once again, how are china and russia doing btw? China civilians can't own guns. That's a society I want to live in . But hey, at least they have access to the internet and information. OH wait, they don't. And the government can restrict freedom of speech/information because no one is armed. They are servants to the Communist government.


So far after reading this thread I've been able to conclude this. More guns has not proven a safer society conclusively. On the other hand more guns has absolutely nothing to do with crime rates since they have dropped nearly every year for decades as the number of guns goes up by the millions. So, i'm pretty sure it's safe for me to say that I will never, ever sell my 2nd amendment to feel safer.  Anyone who does is a fool buying into liberal horse shit. Surprise! The democrats are a bunch of lying politicians just like the republicans. They say what gets them elected and not what's ethical or moral.


And if you are wondering if I own any guns, I do not. I sold my handguns and all my rifles. I recently purchased an AR-15 lower receiver which is by law the registered part of the gun. It is not functioning since half of it is missing. I refuse to give over any right that was secured by the constitution. These rights were not granted to me. I was born with them because I believe the right to self defense is a natural born right. We live in a society where the army has assault weapons. For me to "reasonably" defend myself against an assault weapon I am born with the right to own a semi automatic rifle with a standard magazine (thirty rounds). Even then I am at a huge disadvantage owning a sporting model of an assault rifle. My point being, the AR-15 or any other civilian model of an assault rifle is the bare standard for self defense in 2013. Sorry that's the way humans have evolved. If you do not wish to own a gun for personal reasons then I completely understand. I sold mine because I have no family to defend and live alone. I'd rather take my chances for now, but I will not risk my natural born rights because some fucking idiot in congress needs to get cancer ASAP. We are not European. We will not or want to create social programs the way they have. Therefore, we cannot disarm our citizens when crime is so rampant. 4% of guns used in crime are legally obtained. 3.5% of murders are committed with rifles or shotguns. More people are murdered with hammers and bats than rifles every year. Fuck your fears and accept that the price for freedom comes from a few hundred people dying. Your chances of getting hit by lightening is higher than dying in a mass murder shooting (3 or more people).

Beanhead said:

We should ban cars
we should ban food
we should ban drinks
we should ban air

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Quote:

Take a look at Chicago....drugs and gangs.....let's start there....how is up to the police or higher ranking people.

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, including 300 assault weapons.

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n 2012 police confiscated more than 7,400 guns, including 300 assault weapons

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Quote:

So far after reading this thread I've been able to conclude this. More guns has not proven a safer society conclusively. On the other hand more guns has absolutely nothing to do with crime rates since they have dropped nearly every year for decades as the number of guns goes up by the millions. So, i'm pretty sure it's safe for me to say that I will never, ever sell my 2nd amendment to feel safer.  Anyone who does is a fool buying into liberal horse shit. Surprise! The democrats are a bunch of lying politicians just like the republicans. They say what gets them elected and not what's ethical or moral.

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Guns does not equal violence. Rifles do not equal violence. People's personalities equal violence. Why are we so violent? Because we are the freest group of people in the world. we have rights secured by us in the constitution. That coupled with the fact that we are capitalists and not social-democracies with small populations means there is going to be a group of VERY poor people with NO education who have STOLEN firearms from legal gun owners and turned those guns against them. Instead of blaming them you want to blame the people who are not using their guns for  nothing but good. Your attention is in the wrong area. Why aren't you advocating that people who use rifles in a crime automatically get a 20 year prison sentence? You want to address the gun violence why don't you attack the people who actually use the guns for something other than protecting themselves and their family. How can you come in here advocating restrictions when it's been proven to you that gun ownership or the type of gun has zero to do with violence.


If you really think that turning legal gun owners into criminals by creating restrictive gun laws is going to do anything then you are in a big fucking surprise. You think people are going to suddenly turn over their guns or stop buying guns illegally? Yeah lets turn all the middle class voters into criminals because they are paying $4000 for a $400 handgun to protect their family.

Mafeki said:

Beanhead said:

We should ban cars
we should ban food
we should ban drinks
we should ban air

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It's funny I never said anything about banning or trying to get rid of anything this entire thread.

Tell me how can we get rid of guns? It would be a long process. We would start by reducing the availability of certain types of weaponry, and to make the need for people to be trained, licensed and registered - like we do for cars! That will slowly start to reduce the amount of guns in circulation.

And tell me why that would help? It would reduce the number of weapons that can be used in such violent crimes, thereby reducing victims and the ease of the attackers to cause damage.

"gun's don't kill people, people do". “I don’t think there is any mystery to understanding the passionate feelings people have for guns. Nobody really believes it’s about maintaining a militia. It’s about having possession of a tool that makes a person feel powerful nearly to the point of exaltation.” ― Alec Wilkinson

Quote:

Take a look at Chicago....drugs and gangs.....let's start there....how is up to the police or higher ranking people.

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And where guns are so permeated that you feel like you need to get your own to be safe - but without safety, those guns get lost. In 2012 police confiscated more than 7,400 guns, including 300 assault weapons. That’s nine times as many guns as New York City and three times as many in Los Angeles.

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withoutawire said:

Taking guns away from law abiding citizens isn't how we fix an poverty and mental health issue.

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Quote:

I refuse to give over any right that was secured by the constitution.

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Quote:

We live in a society where the army has assault weapons. For me to "reasonably" defend myself against an assault weapon I am born with the right to own a semi automatic rifle with a standard magazine (thirty rounds).

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Quote:

They confiscated 300 automatic military rifles, or are you incorrectly referring to a semi automatic rifle as an assault rifle?

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Guns are here to stay, and putting laws in place to take limit civilian legal gun ownership which is 99.9% of gun ownership is not going to eliminate the hundreds of millions that exist.

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People are wrong. It happens. In this case, that's you.

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I've been wrong many times, but I didn't ignorantly stick by my position.

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What matters is that you have shut your brain off to the truth.

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Instead of blaming them you want to blame the people who are not using their guns for nothing but good.

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Quote:

You want to address the gun violence why don't you attack the people who actually use the guns for something other than protecting themselves and their family.

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Quote:

How can you come in here advocating restrictions when it's been proven to you that gun ownership or the type of gun has zero to do with violence.

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If you really think that turning legal gun owners into criminals

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You think people are going to suddenly turn over their guns or stop buying guns illegally?

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Mafeki said:

I'm sorry, you're going to have to ask Chicago Police Supt. Garry McCarthy, it was from his speech: “Weak guns laws is what separates Chicago from other large, urban cities. In 2012 we took nine guns off the street for every one gun in New York. In total, the Chicago police confiscated 7,400 guns in 2012 including 300 assault weapons."
Read more: http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20130103/chicago/relatives-of-gunshot-victims-want-sensible-gun-control-laws#ixzz2HGjRiVpa

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Prisoner#1 said:

Mafeki said:

You understand that correlation is not causation, right?

If guns make us safer, than why isn't America safer than most other countries, namely Japan?

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japan is known for reporting murders as suicides when the killer kills himself,
hence they way above average suicide rates that japan sees


explain why the US crime rate in general and the murder rates specifically are
dropping in the US when there's millions more guns being sold in the country
each year... why cant you do that?

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Mafeki said:

Prisoner#1 said:

japan, a land that's virtually banned private gun ownership now seeks more
gun control, seems we're being led astray about the violence in japan

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Are we? How are we being led astray? Is gun violence really in the thousands like here? I didn't see that said in any of your links, could you tell me which one said Japan is more dangerous because it has less guns? That Is what you want us to believe despite facts, right?

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Quote:

Quote:

of course it's not as though you need a gun to commit mass murder

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No, nor do you need a gun here. But with knives you have a lot more people surviving, being just injured. Imagine how many more would be dead if a gun was used. More than half survived in those three, and none died in the last.

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Baby_Hitler said:

Prisoner#1 said:

Mafeki said:

You understand that correlation is not causation, right?

If guns make us safer, than why isn't America safer than most other countries, namely Japan?

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japan is known for reporting murders as suicides when the killer kills himself,
hence they way above average suicide rates that japan sees


explain why the US crime rate in general and the murder rates specifically are
dropping in the US when there's millions more guns being sold in the country
each year... why cant you do that?

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http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline

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unam sanctum said:

"Using data from a national random-digit-dial telephone survey..."

oh , Harvard.

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You got a better idea?

Before you answer, I'd like to stipulate that doing nothing is not an idea.

Mafeki said:

Is the right to own an AR-15 granted by the Constitution? Is that next to the part where bazookas are a protected right?

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why yes, yes they are protected, I can walk into any dealer's shop that has a
bazooka for sale and buy it if I have the purchase price and pay the $200
transfer tax... just like an m-203 grenade launcher or a 37mm grenade launcher
that I dont need to have a transfer stamp for

problem?

koods said:

There s more regulation on cars, food, drinks, and air than there are on guns. Do you know how much bigger the FDA and the dept. of Transportation  are than the ATF. Do you know it is illegal to put data on gun purchases into a computer? Lets get real. There can't be a slippery slope because there is a 2nd amendment, although if gun owners continue to be almost completely intransigent about doing anything constructive and gun crimes continue like they are, eventually people will demand it be repealed.

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Quote:

Pris, anything involving the way people die or are injured is a standard part of epidemiology.

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Quote:

Epidemiology is the study (or the science of the study) of the patterns, causes, and effects of health and disease conditions in defined populations. It is the cornerstone of public health, and informs policy decisions and evidence-based medicine by identifying risk factors for disease and targets for preventive medicine. Epidemiologists help with study design, collection and statistical analysis of data, and interpretation and dissemination of results (including peer review and occasional systematic review). Epidemiology has helped develop methodology used in clinical research, public health studies and, to a lesser extent, basic research in the biological sciences.[1]

Major areas of epidemiological study include disease etiology, outbreak investigation, disease surveillance and screening, biomonitoring, and comparisons of treatment effects such as in clinical trials. Epidemiologists rely on other scientific disciplines like biology to better understand disease processes, statistics to make efficient use of the data and draw appropriate conclusions, social sciences to better understand proximate and distal causes, and engineering for exposure assessment.

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