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Martha/WBS casings getting deep contamination - Need advice
    #16536611 -

tl;dr I need advice on my Martha setup and WBS casings


Hi, I've been lurking for 3 years or so now.  Experienced with cakes and WBS/peat/verm monotubs. A year ago I graduated from college and moved to a new city, so I gave a friend all my growing equipment and started fresh with your standard Martha setup: shelves in a plastic tent with slits cut all around, cool mist humidifier in the bottom (timer set to approx 5 minutes on, 20 minutes off), shoe-box size plastic tubs for the casings, and lots of 5000K lights on a 12/12 timer.

However, in 4 grow attempts since moving, I've gotten nothing but deep, prolific contamination on ALL my casings, all cobweb and trich.  The setup is in a closet that has no vents or other inlets/outlets other than the door.

For casings, I've been using nothing but WBS with a layer of 50/50 peat/verm and Hi-Yield hydrated lime. I do not pasteurize the casing material at all, and when I put together the casings I don't use any sterile technique and I do it out in the open living room.  I let it incubate for 3 days or so, put them in the chamber to fruit, and fairly quickly they are overtaken inside-and-out with contaminants.  All the way down through the colonized birdseed in some cases, in others just down through the casing material, where it dukes it out with the myc.

In each subsequent attempt, I tried different humidities between 85 and 99, got the casing PH to 8 on the dot, altered casing thickness and density, and I put a fan in the closet (not in the Martha setup but the closet itself) to increase FAE.  This last attempt, I put an ultrasonic in the closet, and had the fan gently blow the mist around the casings.  I thought tons of humid FAE, a PH of 8, and lower humidity would fix things but nothing changed.  I've nuked the closet and Martha with Lysol after every grow.  This time I'm going to mist the entire setup with H2O2 and 70% isopropyl.

Right now I've got 12 fully colonized quart jars of WBS and bags of verm/peat/lime.  They've actually been 100% colonized for a few weeks now, because I'm hesitant to try fruiting before hashing out some details here.

I owe a lot to magic mushrooms, they tore down the walls I had built around my heart from a childhood full of sadness, made me kinder to those around me, and opened my mind to so many ideas and the pure beauty surrounding us always.  Now I grow them to give others the same opportunity.  The problem is, I'm a busy young professional, working full-time and putting in 600+ hours of studying a year for credential exams.  So if you could keep the following criteria in mind, I would appreciate it a lot: I'd like to only use materials I can preferably find at a Publix, Walmart, Home Depot, etc.  I live in a city and specialty materials are hard to find sometimes.

However, my other criteria is that I'd like the most minimalism as possible.  The fewer materials I need, the better.  I also like to keep the mess to a minimum, as I do have a roommate and want to be considerate.

All that said, if a specialty material or two will make my life all the easier, and you know a way to acquire it in a city, I will do my best to acquire it.

So uh, any ideas on what to do with these quart jars of WBS and my setup?  I've been looking around the forums trying to piece together some information, and it seems if I just ordered coir off Amazon, it'd make my life easier?  But I'm just not sure how to properly use it, or which type to use, or if it will help with my contamination issues.

Anyways, thank you for reading this!  Really I'm just looking for ways to save time and labor here, and get consistent success (i.e. I'll worry about yield and isolating once I've got a fruiting chamber that doesn't kill everything inside).  I'm worried that WBS is a bad choice of substrate, that there's something wrong with my Martha setup, or my casing materials need to be nuked, or that the jars are too old, or I'm missing the right materials.  I'll spend as much time as I can monitoring this thread.

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Re: Martha/WBS casings getting deep contamination - Need advice [Re: lemonsong]
    #16536718 -

Massive early contamination usually means bad spawn.

How are you inoculating jars? LC?


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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Re: Martha/WBS casings getting deep contamination - Need advice [Re: Doc_T]
    #16536736 -

Well, initially I used a multispore syringe.  My lids have two 1/4" holes in them, then a square of tyvek over each hole taped down with micropore tape (new tape is put on after the syringe goes in).  I put a big square of tyvek under the lid too.  Some of the failed grows were done with G2G transfers from that initial multispore.

I prep my birdseed by soaking it overnight, washing it in the sink and letting it drain for 30 minutes before putting it into the jar and pressure cooking.

But maybe I'm exaggerating the earliness of the contamination.  I'm not the best at keeping track of everything.  Come to think of it, the casings sit there for over a week without pinning and that's when I inspect for contamination and see that it's throughout the casing or myc.

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Re: Martha/WBS casings getting deep contamination - Need advice [Re: lemonsong]
    #16536743 -

Quote:
Well, initially I used a multispore syringe.



Initially? And then what? How did you inoculate your spawn jars?


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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Re: Martha/WBS casings getting deep contamination - Need advice [Re: Doc_T]
    #16536751 -

Grain to grain or multispore syringes are all I ever do

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Re: Martha/WBS casings getting deep contamination - Need advice [Re: Doc_T]
    #16536752 -

"Spawn" however is one of those words that gets ambiguous around here, or at least it confuses me.  So that I'm on the same page, by a 'spawn jar' we're just talking a jar full of wild bird seed, right?

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Re: Martha/WBS casings getting deep contamination - Need advice [Re: lemonsong]
    #16536797 -

lemonsong said:
"Spawn" however is one of those words that gets ambiguous around here, or at least it confuses me.  So that I'm on the same page, by a 'spawn jar' we're just talking a jar full of wild bird seed, right?



Yes.

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Re: Martha/WBS casings getting deep contamination - Need advice [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #16536836 -

So should I just go for it using my usual method?  I mean, I'd like to know as much as I can for my next grow, but right now the jars are already colonized so it's not really possible for me to 're-do' the spawn prep.

Is there anything inherently wrong with just plain bird seed substrate with peat/verm/lime casing on top?  Reading around, it seems people prefer to use WBS for mixing with horse poo or coir before casing it.  I just don't really know what information is legit and what isn't sometimes.

Should I be preparing my casings in a closet without AC vents blowing air around?  Would pasteurizing be worth a shot here?  What's the cleanest and easiest way to pasteurize peat/verm?

Is it still the general consensus that a PH of 8 is optimal for the casing material?

Also I'm considering having no casing material at all.... just dumping wild bird seed into my plastic bins and throwing them in the fruiting chamber right away.  I'm not sure what humidity I would shoot for in that scenario though, and the WBS would be so loose that I would need to harvest the mushrooms carefully with a razor blade, right?  Would uncased WBS need to incubate first to re-establish itself as a solid brick, instead of the pummeled and beaten mess that comes out of a jar?  And then I'm not even sure if any of that would prevent contamination.

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Re: Martha/WBS casings getting deep contamination - Need advice [Re: lemonsong]
    #16536866 -

I believe I read in Stamets book that undercomposted wood can be a leading cause of the mean green. Since you're not pasteurizing your casing layer, maybe that could be a souce of your problem. I always sift my peat to remove the larger pieces of wood before using , there are quite a bit, and then sterilize instead of pasteuring. Seemed to work for me . I would recommend at least pasteuring it and see if that helps.


--------------------
Peace,Love and Happiness
:heart: HC :mushroom2:

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............

I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848

My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058

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Re: Martha/WBS casings getting deep contamination - Need advice [Re: HippieChick]
    #16536985 -

a great site,many useful information!


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Re: Martha/WBS casings getting deep contamination - Need advice [Re: babypp2]
    #16537119 -

What flavors are you trying to grow?  If they're cubes, I'd go without the casing layer, if they're pans, I would keep the casing layer and add poo to the bulk substrate.

BTW, What are you using for your bulk substrate?  I saw coir was mentioned, are you doing Damion5050's tek?  If your not using a bulk substrate at all, then I think we found a considerable factor in your problem.

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Re: Martha/WBS casings getting deep contamination - Need advice [Re: TheDeathryder]
    #16537243 -

He's fruiting straight grain. It needs a casing layer.
Bulk subs can be fruited without a casing layer , but straight grain will dry out fairly quick.


--------------------
Peace,Love and Happiness
:heart: HC :mushroom2:

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............

I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848

My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058

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Re: Martha/WBS casings getting deep contamination - Need advice [Re: HippieChick]
    #16537288 -

HippieChick said:
He's fruiting straight grain. It needs a casing layer.
Bulk subs can be fruited without a casing layer , but straight grain will dry out fairly quick.



I thought everyone used a bulk sub with grain for that reason, didn't know people were straight casing them too.  Live 'n' Learn.

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Re: Martha/WBS casings getting deep contamination - Need advice [Re: HippieChick]
    #16537316 -

Spawn your grain to coir and vermiculite. You'll have much better results. Here are some links to check out:

My Elementary Coir Tek

My One Flush Wonder Mono Tubs Using Coir Tek (Heavy With Pictures)

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Re: Martha/WBS casings getting deep contamination - Need advice [Re: TheEaglesGift]
    #16546799 -

Very cool, thank you guys for the comments and links -- I'm excited to try this stuff.  I've been doing more reading about what everyone's suggested and my plan right now is to spawn to coir/verm, and then just fruit uncased?  It's cubes.

This is my plan is slightly more detail -- if anyone has any critique, I'm all ears:

1. Mix 4 quarts verm + 2 bricks EcoEarth coir + 8 quarts boiling water in bucket
2. Cover with lid, let sit 60 minutes, stir thoroughly, let sit 4 hours
3. Bring bucket to clean closet, verify temperature <100 degrees, thoroughly mix in 12 quarts colonized WBS
4. Spoon mixture into shoebox sized plastic tubs, to 4 inches deep.
5. Place tubs in black plastic garbage bag (loosely closed) in the closet at ~78 degrees with the door cracked open
6. Wait 10 days

7. Remove from bags and place in Martha/greenhouse.
Settings:
Lots of light, 12 on 12 off
Temp: ~75 degrees (I live in the tropics and hate dropping my house to 70 degrees... and I've heard it doesn't matter with cubes)
Humidity: Cool mist in the bottom of greenhouse, 5 minutes on 20 minutes off (what humidity am I ideally shooting for, uncased?  Is condensation on the walls of the greenhouse a bad thing, or just not an ideal thing?  What's the truth about relative humidity?  Like I said I live in the tropics... I also have an ultrasonic humidifier for backup.  Also, how do you guys clean your cool mist humidifiers?  The instructions say run it with a little bit of white vinegar-- could I run it with maybe one part H2O2 nine parts H2O in the humidifier during fruiting to avoid having to thoroughly clean it?)
FAE: I'm going to put a fan in the closet that my greenhouse is in, on low, 24/7.

8. Second flush?  Dunno.  Would these need soaking or just make the cool mist work a little harder?


Thanks again everyone, I feel about 100000000 times more confident now that I've got up-to-date information.  I'm half convinced my spawn is weak and I'm half convinced that casing straight grain is retarded.

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