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OfflineLyte it Up 420
It's 4:19...Gota minute?

Registered: 11/26/02
Posts: 67
Loc: New york
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
new to meditation
    #1544092 - 05/13/03 03:37 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I had no idea it was so complicated. I'm reading all about how if your slouching or overarching or not having your head tilted the right way or not completly comfortable then it won't work. I'm a habitual sloucher, and now am worried i wont be able to do this, I slouch almost all the time, ,automatically, and when i try and sit up strait i become uncomfortable, now if i try and meditate slouched will it not work, and if i try to sit up strait but be uncomfortable will it also not work? I would also appreciate any tips or excersizes i could do to learn meditation. I know it takes along time to do and see results from and that is the main thing I'm worried about, I am a very impatient and lazy person, and I'm afraid I won't go 100% with this and continue to work at it for along time, another problem is my OCD and anxiety, the main reason I want to meditate since it keeps me up for days with insomnia since my mind never shuts up, and from what i've read meditation is just concentrating on breathing, I dont k now if I can do that since my mind always wonders and thinks of all different things. Any help and advice is greatly appreciated, you can msg me here, or through yahoo messenger(ID:Steveuo_die) or AOL (ID:Lyte it up 420). or by replying here. Thanks.


--------------------
"Are you suicidal?"
"Only in the morning."
---------------------------------------
"I only lied about being a thief."


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: new to meditation [Re: Lyte it Up 420]
    #1544101 - 05/13/03 03:40 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You can lay down and medatate. The only problem is that you might fall asleep if you aren't focused.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Invisiblesunyata
nonexistentexistentialist
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 133
Re: new to meditation [Re: Murex]
    #1544195 - 05/13/03 04:27 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hmmm. You might want to check these out:  Active Meditations They are weird and I have not tried them but they seem well-suited for the ADHD crowd.  :smirk:

There are many ways to meditate; sitting still and focusing on the breath is only one of them. A GREAT book is Osho's "Book of Secrets", which is a guide to a 5000 year-old tantirc text (the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra, translates as "techniques for going beyond consciousness") which provides 112 meditation techniques, there's supposed to be at least one technique well-suited for every human being in the world..   


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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
Male

Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: new to meditation [Re: Lyte it Up 420]
    #1544500 - 05/13/03 09:45 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Aren't all those details just minor optimizations really? I am no expert on meditation, I don't even meditate regularly, so take this with a couple of huge grains of salt: I think if you concentrate on the important things first (being mindful of what enters into your consciousness, and then returning to the object of meditation), and focus on that, then later on you can pick and choose among the detailed optimizations and find which ones will work well for you.


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OfflineSole_Worthy
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Registered: 04/20/03
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Last seen: 9 years, 25 days
Re: new to meditation [Re: Lyte it Up 420]
    #1544702 - 05/13/03 11:43 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hey man,

what Ive been doing is lying down with my head propped up by pillows, listening to muisc through headphones. Then I will stare at the wall wit my eyes half shut. I think it sends me the way of sleep rather than mediation but it is good. Maybe it's good practice before starting proper mediation. If I think of anything, then I think of it, no worrys, but I do try to clear my mind. I find that state of mind before sleep rather enlightening. Plus the music can keep you from geting bored.


--------------------
get it all together get like birds of a feather


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: new to meditation [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #1546050 - 05/13/03 07:44 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I always am slouching too, the reason it is uncomfortable is because the muscles that aren't being used are weak from slouching all the time, so consciously work on holding yourself up, the more you work on it, the stronger the muscles will get.
I think the good posture is important, it reflects a lot of things abouit you. (people don't think you're confident and strong slouching, etc.).
I don't know, but I do know that i've been working on my posture for awhile now, and I'm really straightening up. It feels good.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblebuttonion
Calmly Watching

Registered: 04/04/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: new to meditation [Re: Lyte it Up 420]
    #1548242 - 05/14/03 03:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, what everyone else said. And what works for me when trying to clear my head of thought, is to keep in mind the phrase "let go." Rather than getting frustrated with the thoughts that you cannot prevent from getting caught up in, just acknowledge them, let em go, and re-focus- don't fight them. They eventually slow down and stop altogether (when I have a good meditation). Keep with it and good luck.


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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein


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OfflineSterile
mushroom lover
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Registered: 03/16/01
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Re: new to meditation [Re: Lyte it Up 420]
    #1548582 - 05/14/03 05:31 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Meditation is not complicated.
In fact it is exactly the opposite...thoughts are complicated.....meditation is the way to stop the thinking......

There is nothing we can tell you about it... you are the only person who can help you find your personal way to meditate...follow your heart, is all i can say

and please don't listen to people who give you stereotypes on how to meditate.
I do it while picking mushrooms in the mountains for days....
Other people do it all the time....


--------------------
The Source Of The Force
Is The Power Of The Mind


"if you don't like what you're doing, you can always pick up your needle and move to another groove." - timothy leary"
Anno: "-I can do anything with those clouds!"
Annos Tek




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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
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Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: new to meditation [Re: Sterile]
    #1549300 - 05/14/03 10:42 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

yeah, word up sterile.

meditation is completely open to interpretation, personally, i dont go for the traditional "sitting in the thoughtlessness" type of meditation, i like to meditate in action.

like skateboarding, or making out with my girlfriend, or drawing. I find doing things like these to be a really awesome way to meditate. at first I am thinking and intentionally doing things, but after a while, I completely lose myself in the act, and I become thoughtless and just flow with my surroundings.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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OfflinePDU
travel kid vs.amerika
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Registered: 12/04/02
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Re: new to meditation [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1549985 - 05/15/03 02:53 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think medititation is more than just achieving thoughtlessness... traditionally it was used to reach an eccstatic experience, or at least relieve the mind, and thats not going to happen while making out with your girlfriend :wink:

Personally, i like just laying on hard ground, with my eyes closed, hands folded on my chest, and excercise a consistant heavy breathing....its very nice. 


--------------------
GO OUTSIDE.


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OfflineSterile
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Re: new to meditation [Re: PDU]
    #1550271 - 05/15/03 07:13 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

>>I think medititation is more than just achieving thoughtlessness...

Hmmmm....is it? Isn't returning to the source-becoming a baby-feeling without thinking extatic? If these are not extatic, then what do you call extatic?

The thoughts require time, extatic state of mind is experienced only here and now.And thats why we can achive it perfectly by having sex with our girlfriend/boyfriend...

Of course there are many ways to have sex and they are not all so helpfull in meditation....it is a  fact tho that having sex focused only in the action/movement without thinking can deliver you right into the wonderfull world of extacy.

Check out "Tantric sex"  and find out how to achive never ending orgasms.....    its another world-another reality... :wink:


--------------------
The Source Of The Force
Is The Power Of The Mind


"if you don't like what you're doing, you can always pick up your needle and move to another groove." - timothy leary"
Anno: "-I can do anything with those clouds!"
Annos Tek




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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
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Re: new to meditation [Re: Sterile]
    #1551234 - 05/15/03 03:29 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

"at least relieve the mind, and thats not going to happen while making out with your girlfriend"

speak for your self my friend, it happens on a daily basis.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: new to meditation [Re: Lyte it Up 420]
    #1554322 - 05/16/03 04:31 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I had no idea it was so complicated. I'm reading all about how if your slouching or overarching or not having your head tilted the right way or not completly comfortable then it won't work. 




This is nonsense. I don't know where you read this but I suggest you read something else instead. Meditation can take many forms: sitting, lying down, running, playing hockey, playing music... any activity where you can focus your concentration only on what is happening (not what may happen or what has happened). To me, the aim of meditation is to saturate my conscious mind in the present moment. That means letting go all thoughts that arise and concentrate only on being aware of what is happening right now: the sensations in your body and mind.

I'm not very good at explaining things like this so I'll suggest you get a GOOD book on the subject. The best book I've read about mindfulness meditation is Wherever You Go, There You Are by Jon Kabat-Zinn. Below is a link to excerpts from that book, but I suggest you just go out and buy it. It will explain everything you need to know in a rather friendly manner.

Excerpts from Wherever You Go, There you Are

If you don't get a book, there are a lot of good websites, but there are also a lot of BAD websites on the topic. A lot of quacks are attracted to the idea of meditation to, so beware. I'm sure others can suggest some good ones.

Another thing, everyone who takes up meditation has doubts of whether they are 'doing it right,' but with some decent instruction, you'll see there are as many ways to do it as there are people. And anyone can do it.

Quote:

I am a very impatient and lazy person, and I'm afraid I won't go 100% with this and continue to work at it for along time




I am like that too and I have that particular anxiety about just about everything I attempt, but it didn't take long before I experienced results in the form of a clearer, more quiet mind. I used instruction I found on a website, but I've now come to believe a good book is indispensable for learning to meditate. The web did get me started though.

As a final word I'll say it is well worth any effort you have to put in. :smile: 


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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Anonymous

Re: new to meditation [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #1554355 - 05/16/03 04:42 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Damn it man! I was thinking about you last night and wondering how you were!!!!!

It is GREAT to see you!

I hope you'll be posting with us more.

Cheers,


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: new to meditation [Re: ]
    #1556550 - 05/17/03 06:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

>Damn it man! I was thinking about you last night and wondering how you were!!!!!
>It is GREAT to see you!
>I hope you'll be posting with us more.

I had severe Internet withdrawal pains while I was away, but now I'm back to feed my addiction to my friends.

Cheers buddy!


--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
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Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 19,058
Loc: Toronto Canada
Re: new to meditation [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #1556563 - 05/17/03 07:07 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

but now I'm back to feed my addiction to my friends.

We're gonna hold you to it too man :wink: i guess the only other 2 (seemingly) ex Shroomerites i really miss(that i can think of right now) are Dee n ae and go blue :frown:
 


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: new to meditation [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1556666 - 05/17/03 08:45 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hi Lyte it Up 420,
Meditation means diff things to diff people. My mom considers prayer (the act of repeating your desires over and over again, and then repenting for your God awful sins when you're prayers are not answered ;-) as meditation. Some traditions have more active mediation styles where they visual and focus on specific things. The kind of meditation that I find most useful and that is becomming increasing popular (and researched to have powerful theraputic value), is mindfulness mediation. Zen and Buddhist meditations tend to be of this type.

Esentially the point of this type of meditation is to cultivate awareness and disidentify with your thoughts. Awareness can be both external and internal. We are all familiar to some extent to the trance like existance we lead (where we are consumed and lost in our thought processes). By intentionally practicing to be aware we not only become increasing aware of how often we're unaware but we also start liberating ourselves slowly from the trance.

Basically, we're so lost in our own thought process (and our thoughts tend to affect/create our perception of the world, our beliefs and our reality), that we become consumed by them. We fail to truely "experience" and see things for what they are, without labeling, judging, or forming some thought about them. Constantly thinking can be a great burden and torment. It can keep us from truely enjoying things. People with OCD know this. When u start to meditiate, i.e. "watch" your thought process and come to view them as "just thoughts" u start to realize that thoughts are just a flow... a process, things that come and go... they are a part of you but they are NOT "essentially" you (this is what people mean by "disidentification" with thought).
It's like having a screaming 2 year next to u all the time. You are aware of the child but since you're seperate from him/her, u can continue functioning in life and learn to accept/manage/tolerate the little being and even be amused and love the little creature :-)

You can also cultivate awareness by focusing on external objects. One convenient way of doing this is to focus on the breath. Note that in all mindfulness meditation that you are never "trying" to change anything. This is the most important aspect of mediation. You simply accept what is. When focusing on the breath, do not try to change it in any way, do not try to slow it down, speed it up or affect it in any way... simply "follow" it - i.e. "observe" it, "watch" it. Similarly when focusing internally on your thoughts, do not try to change them in any way, do not judge them as good or bad. If u feel awful (like I have felt for most of the last 3 months after a very bad shroom trip), simply accept the awful feeling, just watch it, observe what it truely feels like, is it always there ? does it get worse/better ? but do not try to change it in any way (this is very difficult if u feel particularly awful as I often do - but this is the key). By practicing this we learn to accept. This has extreemly powerful transformative power.

At times, while meditating and becomming intensely present in external awareness (watching a beautiful lake or mountain), sometimes all thoughts may fade away. This can be an intensly blissful feeling. A feeling of absolute peace, arising from complete surrender to the present moment - essentially u feel at peace because u completely accept what is and don't even feel the need to change it in any way, u feel ultimately satisfied, fullfilled and liberated.
Often people refer to the state of no-thought as "no-mind". Sometimes, even people who have never meditated, can achieve this state when they are "blown away", so to speak, by something. Essentially, they have completely given themselves up to this moment.

To constantly think can inflict much internal grief. Imagine if u were constantly thinking while having sex... it would likely ruin the experience. If u kept thinking "darn this will be over soon", "hmmm... how can I make this last" or "how can I make this even better, cause it's just never good enough", u wouldn't be able to truely experience the feeling.

The important thing to remember is that mediation is NOT about work. You don't have to WORK at meditating. Also, there is no right/wrong thinking in meditation and ironically there is no GOAL (ironic because u will feel better if u just allow things to be, but if u make it your GOAL to feel better u most likely won't). Some people find it helpful to concentrate on breathing, certain postures etc while meditating, but it's extreemly important to realize that this isn't required and is certainly not the point of meditation.

I mediate while walking and used to meditate while biking, and I often don't focus on my breath (although it can be helpful at times and I do if I feel like it).

You will likely realize while meditating that we have a lot of internal struggle. We're constantly trying to change the way we feel and be something/somewhere that we're not. This causes undue angst. It's the recognition and observation of this stuggle that meditation brings to light. We've been conditioned to be this way. We feel it's our "right" to feel better (and better and better, constantly ;-) by observing this tendency and how it feeds our thought patterns the mind automatically learns to see the futility of this mechanism. Then slowly these thoughts get dis-empowered.

When a person can abide in a state of complete acceptance and surrender to what is, they are labled "enlightened"...and that's when they generally start charging for it :-D (just kidding)


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: new to meditation [Re: lucid]
    #1556676 - 05/17/03 08:54 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

btw, remind me of all of this when I'm in absolute agony and about to chase down my benzo collection with a pint of Vodka :-o
just kidding, hopefully it won't come to that... peace :-)


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
Son of Uncle Meat
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Re: new to meditation [Re: lucid]
    #1556680 - 05/17/03 08:56 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Basically, we're so lost in our own thought process (and our thoughts tend to affect/create our perception of the world, our beliefs and our reality), that we become consumed by them.

That is IT Lucid........no more depression from you or absorption in negativity or i'm a gonna have to come up the Montreal and kick your @ss! (i'm in Toronto too, btw, so it would not be that much of an effort on my part :grin:)Seriously though, you possess SO much freakin wisdom and intelligence that you can dispense at will to others but not apply to yourself(YET!) damn man you are one crazy mo'fo :grin:

It's like i am reading the posts of 2 different people!  But no worries man, i am much the same way myself :smile: 


--------------------
"Being crazier than a shithouse rat is not sufficient grounds for banishment"



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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: new to meditation [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1556725 - 05/17/03 09:34 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Hey Freak (mind if I call u Freak ?  :grin: sorry couldn't resist that),
you're sooo right about not being able to apply it to myself... I used to be able to, that's why I'd sit at mountain peaks for hours/days in utter peace. I realize that it's difficult for people who don't know me to believe/understand this - and I realize too that it sounds cheezy and New Age - "utter peace"... "yeah right", but I *did* feel it, I vaguely remember that feeling... if I didn't I wouldn't have wasted days meditating, I would have been doing something else, anything. But the last 3 months have been *extreemly* painful (I kid u not). After my bad shroom trip I've been in exceeding painful torment (it's tough for me to even write this). And my current state has given all those around me (basically just my family) a chance to say "well a lot of good your meditation did u" "see u should have listened to us" "u should have stayed away from all those strange ideas"... sigh... but it's not their fault that they don't understand. If it hadn't been for meditation and a strong inclination to realize that there is more than just this (this "pattern" of life ordained by society) I wouldn't be here today. The sad thing is that people equate the "man" with the "path" - i.e. if a man is on a path and something bad happens to him, people say "wrong path". But it doesn't necesarrily mean the path was wrong, everyone has their limitations, if I crumble because of unbearable pain it doesn't mean the path was wrong it would simply mean that the pain was intolerable. It's also difficult for people to believe that I'm in the kind of pain I claim to be in, after all I drag my a** into work every once in a while, I manage to hold a conversation at times and even try desperately to help others if I can, but I carry a moutain of angst with me everywhere I go and it's been taking it's toll. Only I know how I feel inside. Strange, but when I was peaceful and happy people around me couldn't understand/believe it, now when I'm in pain it's the same, people can't understand/believe it. I'm not quite sure why, since I have no reason to lie (a person considering suicide has *no* reason to lie - if I do it, I'll be dead and gone and it won't make a diff what I said, so why bother lying). Something in me has brought me this far though, I'm just hoping that not only is there a light at the end of the tunnel but that I'm carrying something useful in this dark tunnel and when I get to the end I'll be able to see what I'm carrying and use it to help others. Maybe I'll find out I was carrying a light and use it to help others make it through the tunnel... damn, I'm getting cheezy here... should stop before I start sticking to the keyboard  :grin:


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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