|
HidingInPlainSight
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 2,077
Loc: Oklahoma City , OK, USA
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Meditation
#2188423 - 12/18/03 04:58 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
What would you guys say is the most effective practice of meditation to achieve a different level of consciousness?
|
Mixomatosis
great ape
Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
|
|
any kind the key is doing it
|
soylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
|
|
just breath
-------------------- What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?
|
Positronius
playboy
Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
|
|
downing a bottle of scotch on an empty stomach
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
|
lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
|
|
Quote:
ledzepln86 said: What would you guys say is the most effective practice of meditation to achieve a different level of consciousness?
why are people so eager to achieve different levels of conciousness yea, I get startling changes in conciousness every time I meditate and I hate it !!! I'm looking for an inner psychological change and not an organic way to trip, so these radical shifts bother me and often are quite unpleasent and disturbing...wtf does everyone want to experience them, I don't get it trust me, it ain't fun to feel like you've left your body and your personal identity vanishes and you feel completely dissasociated and don't know who you are or what you are or what is real and what isn't...
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
|
recalcitrant
My Own God
Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
|
Re: Meditation [Re: lucid]
#2188926 - 12/18/03 09:38 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I appreciate your position. Not knowing who you are or what is real can be hard.
Ever seen a movie called "momento"? It has this character who has lost his short term memory permanently. He goes through life very differently than I, but he has adjusted.
the Borg are key. adapt.
are you unable to control the OBEs? do they come on whenever and stay for however long? Are you sure it isnt PTSD or HPPD or something?
-------------------- We have to answer our own prayers
|
Anonymous
|
Re: Meditation [Re: lucid]
#2188935 - 12/18/03 09:44 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
lucid said: trust me
|
lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
|
|
Quote:
recalcitrant said: I appreciate your position. Not knowing who you are or what is real can be hard.
Ever seen a movie called "momento"? It has this character who has lost his short term memory permanently. He goes through life very differently than I, but he has adjusted.
the Borg are key. adapt.
are you unable to control the OBEs? do they come on whenever and stay for however long? Are you sure it isnt PTSD or HPPD or something?
nope it's certainly not HPPD and my panic is part of PTSD, but these are definitely related to meditation, and once experienced during meditation, they persist - i.e. they come up frequently throughout the day completely randomly. My awareness has increased to the point where sometimes I'll just suddenly become aware of everything, my surrounding my very being and each and every thought process this in turn completely quiets the mind (please not that I don't ever try to quiet the mind, it happens as a result of being aware). In this state it's very very hard to function and sometimes it feels like everything around me will just collapse...
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
|
Positronius
playboy
Registered: 11/27/03
Posts: 947
Loc: montreal-vancouver-tokyo
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
|
Re: Meditation [Re: lucid]
#2188947 - 12/18/03 09:49 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
hey, heres an idea.
Maybe everyone wont have the same experience as you when they meditate? what do you think?
-------------------- and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll
|
lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
|
|
Quote:
Positronius said: hey, heres an idea.
Maybe everyone wont have the same experience as you when they meditate? what do you think?
absolutely but I'm just trying to point out that the possiblity not only exists but is very real. Also, meditation is not a panacea for all people as it's purported to be. Just as shrooms can result in good and bad trips (with permanent lasting affects), so too can meditation. I just wish someone had informed me of this before the fact. But no one did. New-Agers paint a fluffy happy blissed out state for meditators. How often have u read that "thoughts are the enemy" and that quieting the mind is the ultimate cure ? Ram Dass's books (be here now), Eckhart Tolle (the power of now)...the list goes on...have these people once mentioned that u could freak out permenantly with meditation ? I'm not saying everyone will, but I'm pointing out that it's playing with your conciousness and in ways that could affect u permanently...it's upto you to take the risk, but the risk should be knows - I wish someone had informed me...
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
|
recalcitrant
My Own God
Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
|
Re: Meditation [Re: lucid]
#2189185 - 12/18/03 11:32 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
is there not also a risk in living? where is the guarantee that I will not 'crack' and go psycho any minute?
I am more afraid of a stroke.
-------------------- We have to answer our own prayers
|
gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 5 months, 21 days
|
|
~ "follow your breath" ~
~
-------------------- old enough to know better not old enough to care
|
HidingInPlainSight
Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 2,077
Loc: Oklahoma City , OK, USA
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
|
I've been reading up on Astral Projection.. seems pretty interesting.
|
lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
|
|
Quote:
recalcitrant said: is there not also a risk in living? where is the guarantee that I will not 'crack' and go psycho any minute?
I am more afraid of a stroke.
there is risk in everything even eating beans... but the question is the probability of risk. If u take LSD, weed, shrooms, booze and all sorts of mind altering substances on a daily basis then the probability of going nuts is higher than just "going psycho any minute" from day to day living... do you not agree ?
Also, my initial point is that people seem to be seeking more and more sensations, turning to astral projection and what not to try and alleviate the boredom of mundane day to day existance. This is a bit escapist and living this way is actually encouraging illusion/dellusions. If you meditate then you must be well aware that the goal of meditation is to come out of our illusions and face reality. My point was that I could not comprehend why people are always seeking to enhance their illusions and seeking different sensations/conciousness. And I was using my meditative experience to illustrate the danger of getting stuck in such a dellusional mind. If my meditation were to bring me some bit of peace (through acceptance whatever) then I would be satisfied. I do NOT meditate to seek more sensational experiences. I find the shifts in conciousness and illusions/hallucinations to be a very unfortunate by-product of meditation that I would much rather live without...
that was my point...not to trash meditation... in any case there are dangers in meditation as pointed out earlier - and these dangers are more probable than "just going psycho" from day to day living.
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
|
eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
|
|
The Vajrayana
-------------------- ...or something
|
ceephax
Tapeworm
Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 106
Loc: Gastrointestinal track
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
|
Re: Meditation [Re: eve69]
#2190437 - 12/19/03 12:49 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
:being in the present moment.
If you decide to meditate for the sole purpose of having an altered state of consciousness then that will lead to self-destruction.
Meditation is not about achieving some goal.
. please, contradict me
-------------------- What am I saying? I'm not even Chinese!
|
lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
|
Re: Meditation [Re: ceephax]
#2190548 - 12/19/03 01:17 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ceephax said: :being in the present moment.
If you decide to meditate for the sole purpose of having an altered state of consciousness then that will lead to self-destruction.
Meditation is not about achieving some goal.
. please, contradict me
exactly meditation is certainly not about acheiving altered states of consciousness
-------------------- "no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
|
eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
Loc: isle de la muerte
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
|
Re: Meditation [Re: lucid]
#2190868 - 12/19/03 02:51 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
exactly meditation is certainly not about acheiving altered states of consciousness
Are you sure, Stream-enterer?
-------------------- ...or something
|
ZenGecko
enthusiast
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 285
Last seen: 1 year, 23 days
|
Re: Meditation [Re: lucid]
#2193831 - 12/21/03 07:11 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
lucid,
Some people use meditation to experience different states, or sensations or whatever, and some people who started to sincerely try to actualize their true self or whatever also get distracted by these. Sometimes everything is hyper real, sometimes nothing is real, perceptions of time change, perceptions of self change... sometimes u see things and sometimes u feel things, and often u dont know what to make of them. Some are distractions others are sign posts pointing one way or another, but u can rarely know if its the right way, or which is a distraction, and which is a guide... and sometimes the path is hard. You experience things that are uncomfortable, or strange, or have great insights that lead to hope, or to new fears. The point is those who think the path is easy are misguided probably, there are bound to be pitfalls, consequences for completely altering your perception in a moment or permanetly. If you dont want to know yourself better, if you dont care about freeing yourself from suffering, or finding "your" answers, or new questions, then do not meditate, because until your "there" your going to have ups and downs and all kinds of strange experiences. You may find out that you dont want to get "there", the idea of "there" can be scarey, and if u trust that it is better then u do your best to overcome those fears but if u dont, then u give up, try not to look, hide your eyes and stay where u are, or go back to where u were. the idea that you could exist with out a "self" an ego, is totally alien, atleast to me. I have never experienced ego death. Its probably the one major aspect of the enlightenment experience that has eluded me. From my readings of enlightenment discriptions i've experienced most everything but ego death, though i'm not claiming to be enlightened mind you. I think i've come close to ego death, sometimes i think i feel myself slipping away, and its hard to cope with. even thinking about it, i cant really wrap my mind around what it would be like to exist in that state, especially permanetly. Would i let people walk all over me? would i do everything i was told, because i have no desire of my own? those possibilities scare the hell out of me, but then i remember that if i were to be in that state, then even if some or all of that occured, it couldn't touch me, i couldn't suffer, there would be no "me" to suffer, but like i said i cant wrap my mind around what that would be like, and chances are i'll never progress to that state atleast not fully, i think few if any do exist in a perpetual selfless state. but if i could find some peace, and i'm sure i can, then i have to try so i do try. If u want what i want, keep going, if your not sure, keep going, and if u dont, then stop, it will likely only get more difficult in that case. For me regardless of the outcome, the most important thing is to try and face the truth, whatever that is... ask the questions, to try and atleast find some answers, or at the very least face the truth that the only thing that is certain, is uncertainty and try to be ok with that. I have to do this, but if you dont, maybe you should consider not trying. Sincerely, That which is, and has no choice but to be
|
|