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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Registered: 01/27/03
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Meditation
    #2188423 - 12/18/03 06:58 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

What would you guys say is the most effective practice of meditation to achieve a different level of consciousness?


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
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Re: Meditation [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2188566 - 12/18/03 07:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

any kind the key is doing it


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Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
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Re: Meditation [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2188879 - 12/18/03 11:14 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

just breath


--------------------
What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
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Re: Meditation [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2188881 - 12/18/03 11:16 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

downing a bottle of scotch on an empty stomach


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Meditation [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2188909 - 12/18/03 11:31 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ledzepln86 said:
What would you guys say is the most effective practice of meditation to achieve a different level of consciousness?




why are people so eager to achieve different levels of conciousness :confused:
yea, I get startling changes in conciousness every time I meditate
and I hate it !!! I'm looking for an inner psychological change and
not an organic way to trip, so these radical shifts bother me and
often are quite unpleasent and disturbing...wtf does everyone want
to experience them, I don't get it  :confused:
trust me, it ain't fun to feel like you've left your body and
your personal identity vanishes and you feel completely dissasociated
and don't know who you are or what you are or what is real and
what isn't...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
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Re: Meditation [Re: lucid]
    #2188926 - 12/18/03 11:38 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I appreciate your position. Not knowing who you are or what is real can be hard.

Ever seen a movie called "momento"? It has this character who has lost his short term memory permanently. He goes through life very differently than I, but he has adjusted.

the Borg are key. adapt.


are you unable to control the OBEs? do they come on whenever and stay for however long? Are you sure it isnt PTSD or HPPD or something?


--------------------

We have to answer our own prayers


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Anonymous

Re: Meditation [Re: lucid]
    #2188935 - 12/18/03 11:44 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

lucid said:

trust me




:confused:


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Meditation [Re: recalcitrant]
    #2188942 - 12/18/03 11:46 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

recalcitrant said:
I appreciate your position. Not knowing who you are or what is real can be hard.

Ever seen a movie called "momento"? It has this character who has lost his short term memory permanently. He goes through life very differently than I, but he has adjusted.

the Borg are key. adapt.


are you unable to control the OBEs? do they come on whenever and stay for however long? Are you sure it isnt PTSD or HPPD or something?




nope it's certainly not HPPD and my panic is part of PTSD, but these
are definitely related to meditation, and once experienced during
meditation, they persist - i.e. they come up frequently throughout
the day completely randomly. My awareness has increased to the point
where sometimes I'll just suddenly become aware of everything, my
surrounding my very being and each and every thought process this
in turn completely quiets the mind (please not that I don't ever
try to quiet the mind, it happens as a result of being
aware). In this state it's very very hard to function and sometimes
it feels like everything around me will just collapse...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: Meditation [Re: lucid]
    #2188947 - 12/18/03 11:49 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

hey, heres an idea.

Maybe everyone wont have the same experience as you when they meditate? what do you think?


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Meditation [Re: Positronius]
    #2188961 - 12/18/03 11:53 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Positronius said:
hey, heres an idea.

Maybe everyone wont have the same experience as you when they meditate? what do you think?




absolutely :grin:
but I'm just trying to point out that the possiblity not
only exists but is very real. Also, meditation is not a panacea
for all people as it's purported to be.
Just as shrooms can result in good and bad trips (with permanent
lasting affects), so too can meditation. I just wish someone
had informed me of this before the fact. But no one did.
New-Agers paint a fluffy happy blissed out state for meditators.
How often have u read that "thoughts are the enemy" and that
quieting the mind is the ultimate cure ? Ram Dass's books
(be here now), Eckhart Tolle (the power of now)...the list goes
on...have these people once mentioned that u could freak out
permenantly with meditation ? I'm not saying everyone will, but
I'm pointing out that it's playing with your conciousness and
in ways that could affect u permanently...it's upto you to take
the risk, but the risk should be knows - I wish someone had
informed me...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 6 months, 23 days
Re: Meditation [Re: lucid]
    #2189185 - 12/19/03 01:32 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

is there not also a risk in living? where is the guarantee that I will not 'crack' and go psycho any minute?

I am more afraid of a stroke.


--------------------

We have to answer our own prayers


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Offlinegnrm23
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Registered: 08/30/99
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Re: Meditation [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2189753 - 12/19/03 09:19 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

~ "follow your breath" ~



~


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineHidingInPlainSight
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Registered: 01/27/03
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Re: Meditation [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2189767 - 12/19/03 09:30 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I've been reading up on Astral Projection.. seems pretty interesting.


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Meditation [Re: recalcitrant]
    #2189882 - 12/19/03 11:00 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

recalcitrant said:
is there not also a risk in living? where is the guarantee that I will not 'crack' and go psycho any minute?

I am more afraid of a stroke.




there is risk in everything even eating beans...
but the question is the probability of risk.
If u take LSD, weed, shrooms, booze and all sorts of
mind altering substances on a daily basis then
the probability of going nuts is higher than
just "going psycho any minute" from day to
day living...
do you not agree ?

Also, my initial point is that people seem to
be seeking more and more sensations, turning to
astral projection and what not to try and alleviate
the boredom of mundane day to day existance. This
is a bit escapist and living this way is actually
encouraging illusion/dellusions. If you meditate
then you must be well aware that the goal of meditation
is to come out of our illusions and face reality.
My point was that I could not comprehend why people
are always seeking to enhance their illusions and
seeking different sensations/conciousness. And I
was using my meditative experience to illustrate
the danger of getting stuck in such a dellusional
mind. If my meditation were to bring me some bit
of peace (through acceptance whatever) then I would
be satisfied. I do NOT meditate to seek more sensational
experiences. I find the shifts in conciousness and
illusions/hallucinations to be a very unfortunate
by-product of meditation that I would much rather
live without...

that was my point...not to trash meditation...
in any case there are dangers in meditation as pointed
out earlier - and these dangers are more probable than
"just going psycho" from day to day living.


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
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Re: Meditation [Re: HidingInPlainSight]
    #2189967 - 12/19/03 11:46 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The Vajrayana


--------------------
...or something







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Offlineceephax
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Re: Meditation [Re: eve69]
    #2190437 - 12/19/03 02:49 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

:being in the present moment.

If you decide to meditate for the sole purpose of having an altered state of consciousness then that will lead to self-destruction.

Meditation is not about achieving some goal.

. please, contradict me


--------------------
What am I saying? I'm not even Chinese!


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Meditation [Re: ceephax]
    #2190548 - 12/19/03 03:17 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ceephax said:
:being in the present moment.

If you decide to meditate for the sole purpose of having an altered state of consciousness then that will lead to self-destruction.

Meditation is not about achieving some goal.

. please, contradict me




exactly  :thumbup: :thumbup:
meditation is certainly not about acheiving altered states
of consciousness


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Meditation [Re: lucid]
    #2190868 - 12/19/03 04:51 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

exactly
meditation is certainly not about acheiving altered states
of consciousness


Are you sure, Stream-enterer?


--------------------
...or something







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OfflineZenGecko
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Re: Meditation [Re: lucid]
    #2193831 - 12/21/03 09:11 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

lucid,

Some people use meditation to experience different states, or sensations or whatever, and some people who started to sincerely try to actualize their true self or whatever also get distracted by these. Sometimes everything is hyper real, sometimes nothing is real, perceptions of time change, perceptions of self change... sometimes u see things and sometimes u feel things, and often u dont know what to make of them. Some are distractions others are sign posts pointing one way or another, but u can rarely know if its the right way, or which is a distraction, and which is a guide... and sometimes the path is hard. You experience things that are uncomfortable, or strange, or have great insights that lead to hope, or to new fears.
The point is those who think the path is easy are misguided probably, there are bound to be pitfalls, consequences for completely altering your perception in a moment or permanetly. If you dont want to know yourself better, if you dont care about freeing yourself from suffering, or finding "your" answers, or new questions, then do not meditate, because until your "there" your going to have ups and downs and all kinds of strange experiences. You may find out that you dont want to get "there", the idea of "there" can be scarey, and if u trust that it is better then u do your best to overcome those fears but if u dont, then u give up, try not to look, hide your eyes and stay where u are, or go back to where u were.
the idea that you could exist with out a "self" an ego, is totally alien, atleast to me. I have never experienced ego death. Its probably the one major aspect of the enlightenment experience that has eluded me. From my readings of enlightenment discriptions i've experienced most everything but ego death, though i'm not claiming to be enlightened mind you. I think i've come close to ego death, sometimes i think i feel myself slipping away, and its hard to cope with. even thinking about it, i cant really wrap my mind around what it would be like to exist in that state, especially permanetly. Would i let people walk all over me? would i do everything i was told, because i have no desire of my own? those possibilities scare the hell out of me, but then i remember that if i were to be in that state, then even if some or all of that occured, it couldn't touch me, i couldn't suffer, there would be no "me" to suffer, but like i said i cant wrap my mind around what that would be like, and chances are i'll never progress to that state atleast not fully, i think few if any do exist in a perpetual selfless state. but if i could find some peace, and i'm sure i can, then i have to try so i do try.
If u want what i want, keep going, if your not sure, keep going, and if u dont, then stop, it will likely only get more difficult in that case. For me regardless of the outcome, the most important thing is to try and face the truth, whatever that is... ask the questions, to try and atleast find some answers, or at the very least face the truth that the only thing that is certain, is uncertainty and try to be ok with that. I have to do this, but if you dont, maybe you should consider not trying.
Sincerely,
That which is, and has no choice but to be


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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