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Re: A question about God... [Re: ]
    #1529272 -

Animal affairs are God affairs too :wink:

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Re: A question about God... [Re: ]
    #1529342 -

so does god sanction the killing of baby bears by the males (so the father bear can mate with the female again)?

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Re: A question about God... [Re: ]
    #1529363 -

that's what bears do, so it's an aspect of God

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Re: A question about God... [Re: Shroomism]
    #1529381 -


Great analogy Shroomism, I don't think could say it any better.

God doesn't really know the future because I don't. I just have a sketch of what it would be like then from where things are now. What would be the point if 'God' know everything and the everything that will happen? That's like cheating at solatire....err something like that.

:tongue:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: A question about God... [Re: ]
    #1529385 -

so, humans killing eachother in the street for money is an aspect of god and ok?

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Re: A question about God... [Re: ]
    #1529430 -

it's not a question of 'ok' or 'not ok', it is simply a matter of a low level of evolution. and yes, it too is an aspect of god. 'ok' and 'not ok' are human ideas reflecting our dualistic current level of consciousness.

Edited by Fiend (05/08/03 01:41 AM)

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Re: A question about God... [Re: ]
    #1529497 -

alright, i won't use those words, but, does god view the killing of animals by animals in the same way as he views humans killing humans. establishing the fact that killing is on both of our evolutionary paths.

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Re: A question about God... [Re: ]
    #1529512 -

Killing happens. Nothing is the way anyone wants things to be. If it were perfect, it would be an illision to what we really are. Nobody agrees on everything, even when it comes to the ideal world.

There is no such thing as right and wrong, only opinion. Society determins what is to be classafied as right and wrong.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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Re: A question about God... [Re: ]
    #1529531 -

in my opinion god does not "view" anything in anyway. it all simply is, and as such it is an expression of an aspect of God. i guess the short answer to your question is 'yes', but you should take into account the conecpt of God you have in your mind is obviously drastically different than the concept i have, if it wasnt you wouldnt be asking these questions

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Re: A question about God... [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1530083 -

JohnnyRespect, your immediate assumption is a strict 'objective' division between GOD in His/Her Immanence, and discrete human 'souls.' I am not a pantheist, so please do not interpret this to mean that in some way we are GOD. No. GOD'S Immanent Nature creates, contributes to our moment-to-moment lives.

GOD is Creator, and like classic Hindu theology, also a Sustainer and a Destroyer. GOD does not "intervene," or for that matter 'interfere' with the affairs of men. GOD is creating and sustaining the universe without interruption of these Divine 'actions,' which are really aspects of GOD'S Nature. Creation is not a 'thing' that was made and left to operate - that is the Divine Watchmaker idea of centuries past. If anything, sentient, contingent beings (like us) are 'interactive' with GOD - the GROUND OF BEING - from which we derive our moment-to-moment existence. Creation is never severed from GOD'S creative and sustaining Nature. GOD is the Eternal Source from which the matrix of space-time emerges.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (05/08/03 07:48 AM)

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Re: A question about God... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1530472 -

Well, if god doesn't invervene or interfere with the affairs of men, why bother with him? Why pray? Why go to church? Why "talk" with god? If we beleive that God doesn't interfere or intervene, asking god for help with lifes issues is like asking a rock for help, both of them won't help us out (actually even worse, myabe the rock would be used to help you in some way). I think that if God doesn't intervene in human matters for any reason (Even to spare us from suffering, or huge loss of human life), then it's foolish to even bother with him. I also feel that if, as Christianity preaches, if you don't accept Jesus, then you burn in hell, and your actions are totally irrrelavent to the decision as to wether ornot you'll burn in hell, then God is a mean tyrant. God created man knowing (if he is all-knowing) that the majority of humanity would never even be exposed to his teachings, let alone accept that Jesus is his son, and the savior of man. Basically, following this premise, God, the all-knowing, created an almost uncountable number of people who he knew would never be exposed to the "truthts" that one must accept to go to heaven after death. He also created man for the sole reason of worshipping him. So now we have a God that won't interfere in human matters (even to help us, to allievate our suffering, or to save lives), and that demands that we worship him (and believe Jesus was his son) or we'll burn in the firey pits of hell forever! On top of that, God doesn't even use his magestic awe-inspiring powers (such as he did with Saul) to show the world that he exists so we have something tangible to grasp onto. he makes it so that the majority of the world never hears the truths that they must for salvation, and he doesn't do anything to change this! If God intervened before on behalf of saving man (saving our souls, actually), why doesn't he do it now? God sounds more like saddam than a "loving compassionate" god. Also, how could god "love" us so much, but not intervene to show heexists? If God is a perfect being, then his love would be a perfect love. An unconditional love where he accepts that humans have hte potential to fail and to not belive what he wants us to. If humans can have, or can cultivate, unconditional love for each other, but God can't, does that mean that his love for us is less perfect than the love some humans have for others?

If this is truely the case, and god is real, then I say to hell with him. I'd rather burn forever than worship on bended knee to a god that will never help me out(no intervention) and that won't do something "god-like" to make me belive that he exists, and that Jesus was his son. If that is how he is, then the entire point of humanity is just so God can have people to worship him and so he can make people that he knows will never have a chance to worship him, and they juts get to burn in hell forever. If that is how god is, then fuck him.

Jr


--------------------
As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!

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Re: A question about God... [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1530513 -

to hell with him!


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: A question about God... [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1530581 -

Youre still missing the point. God's will is expressed through humans and everything else for that matter. You are part of it.

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Re: A question about God... [Re: ]
    #1530629 -

If every human behaves through God's will, then that would mean that sin originated with God, not with man, as we would be unable to "create" anything ourselves. If your statement is correct, and man is just a way for god to act out his beliefs (Since god is alive in each of us and it's his will that we are folllowing out), then humanity is nothing more than a few billion toys that god has in his sand box that he manipulates how he wants. I think that anyway you look at it, a "God" like that takes away every bit of value of human life. IT also would take away all responsibilty for our actions, if they are the "will" of god.

Jr


--------------------
As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!

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Re: A question about God... [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1530702 -

There is no such thing as "sin", that word is human invention. And the fact that God's will is expressed through human beings, (among billions of other life forms and all physical matter), well, that would mean people killing each other and being bastards would be a lot more like manipulating God's will than vice versa, but even that isn't happening. Can you not think outside of your current idea of God being a seperate entity, even briefly? How can humans be Gods sandbox toys when the sandbox toys are an extension of God himself?

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Re: A question about God... [Re: ]
    #1530827 -

If god and humans are the same, and humans are imperfect creatures, then god is an imperfect god.  Also, if God and humans are the same, or humans are extention of God, then god damning people to hell is like.. him sending himself to hell.  Which would be OK since the devil would also be a part of god.  See why religion is so stupid? :wink:



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As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!

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Re: A question about God... [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1530844 -

All I see is that you aren't following what I'm saying at all.

A) Hell does not exist
B) The devil does not exist
C) Nothing is 'imperfect'


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Re: A question about God... [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1530847 -

I do agree with you that religion is stupid though.

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Re: A question about God... [Re: ]
    #1530896 -

Fiend  - I'm not questiniong YOUR beliefs, I'm questioning the tenants of Christianity :smile: I don't belive in god, heaven, hell or sin.  However, my debate is with a Christan, and I'm oging to drive to NC to meet my cousins preacher, so I'd like information relative to that :smile:  If a muslim posted in here how none of it was real, it wouldn't matter, because i'm not dealing with the islamic religion :smile:

I think that we agree on a lot of things tho, so please don't take this as a flame or anything. Also, I really like those three books you have as your sig, I'm going to aquire them all soon.

Jr


--------------------
As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!

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Re: A question about God... [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1530949 -

lol i keep forgetting this thread is pertaining to the argument with your cousin, my bad :grin:

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