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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :)
    #1471753 -

In America, we have huge open forums where people can disagree with our leader, how he was elected into office, his positions, insult him and his family, call him stupid (etcetera). In pre-liberated Iraq, if you'd have done that, you'd have been killed / imprisoned. Maybe those peopel deserve as much a change for democracy and freedom as we do? I just think it's a bit pious for white kids with dreadlocks in college on mommy and daddys penny to be telling us how the Iraqi's probably are better off under their dictator than liberated by the US. Just a quick question, how many people that post in here have ever been to an Arab nation before?

Pz

Johnny R


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As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!

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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1472099 -

With a prison population larger than Chicago, the US can hardly claim more freedom than Saddam, even if they dont dump you in a tub of acid for criticizing the Shrub. A judge may not sentance you torture as punishment for a crime in the US; but the conditions in the prisons easily offset this legal technicality. Police are also allowed to use torture to force arrestees to give up the right to remain silent, since again, its not punishment for a crime. And the CIA is known to have tortured at least two EPOWs to death in Afghanistan. And what the CIA/FBI/DEA do illegally is anyones' guess. But when all is said and done, we prolly have more of our own Saddam Hussein's in govt and law enforcement in the US than we care to imagine. On top of all that, we have passed a PATRIOT act and a RAVE act. The Arabs are quite correct in comparing us to the medeval(sp) crusaders, who claimed they were "liberating" Israel by slaughtering the indigenous Arabic population.

And ive never been to Iraq; but i have travelled in Turkey and Egypt. The Arabs that you meet on the street in these countries dont even come close to the stereotypical kamekazi image that many Amerikkkans have of them. I have also been (unfortunately) to Israel; and anyone that has had to deal with Israelis can easily sympathize with the Palestinians.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1472197 -

"and anyone that has had to deal with Israelis can easily sympathize with the Palestinians."  I wish that someone would start blowing up busses filled with white dread-locked college boys and girls over here, maybe we'd realize what fanatical Islam is all about.  For future reading on those wonderful arabs and us stinky white people, read about Wahabism, a sect of Islam practised by Saudi Arabians, (it's the state religion).  I'm sure you'll be amused, actually, you have your liberal glasses on, so you probably won't be :smile:  Again, it's easy to be awhite American telling other white americans how everyone else in the world loves the way they live and never having bee nthere.  I honestly think that America hsould stop giving any aide of any sort to any other nation, other than a few select european allies.  If these nations can't do anything but critize and bitch about us, they can starve in the streets for all I care.  Also, another thing you notice when you travel in the middle east, everyone has something badto say about America, but they all want you to somehow help them get here.  As I say in all my posts about the middle east, if you had critized the leader of your Arab nation the way you critized bush, you'd be dead, as would, possibly, your family :smile:


Basically this is a very easy moral decision.  It's a decision based on utilitarian philosophy.  what is the greatest good for the greatest amount of people?  sure we might kill some innocent people in the war, but long term, for the largest percentage of people, what we are doing will be beneficial.  I am sure that, being a good liberal and toe-ing the liberal line, you are pro-Womens Rights, pro-voting-rights for all, human righs, etceteras.  Now, The Americanization of Iraq, long term, is going to bring more of those qualities to more people than the entire cultural revolution of the 40-80's did in America.

PS, excuse the horrible penmanship and grammar of this post, it's 2 in the morning, i'm stoned, and I'm not really into writing a grad level thesis on this :smile:

Pz

Johnny R


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As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!

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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1472342 -

Read my post in the Poll forum, its in the Iraq thread. I made a few points relevant to this.


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The Unfunny Truth About Scientology

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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: GringoLoco]
    #1472361 -

Ask the Brits about Jewish terrorism during and after World War II, in what is modern day Israel.


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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1472870 -

Quote:
Basically this is a very easy moral decision. It's a decision based on utilitarian philosophy. what is the greatest good for the greatest amount of people? sure we might kill some innocent people in the war, but long term, for the largest percentage of people, what we are doing will be beneficial. I am sure that, being a good liberal and toe-ing the liberal line, you are pro-Womens Rights, pro-voting-rights for all, human righs, etceteras. Now, The Americanization of Iraq, long term, is going to bring more of those qualities to more people than the entire cultural revolution of the 40-80's did in America.



For Amerikkka to decide that neoconservatism is good for someone else and then impose it on them with the brutal use of force is the most immoral decision possible. I have already elabourated on what the neocons have done to the US and what they will do to Iraq. Your rant perfectly illustrates neocon hippocrysy and mendacity. FOAD, toad.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

Edited by Annapurna1 (04/19/03 10:23 AM)

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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1472903 -

"FOAD"

what does this mean?

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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: ]
    #1472906 -

Please refer to the The Canonical Abbreviation/Acronym List :smirk: 


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1472933 -

Fuck Off And Die?

please refer to the Political Forum Rules

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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: ]
    #1472955 -

As Rome burns, Nero attends to acronymics. Please stop trying to change the subject of the thread. (Besides, that not even what it says in the lynk anyway).


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

Edited by Annapurna1 (04/19/03 10:49 AM)

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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1472984 -

In pre-liberated Iraq, if you'd have done that, you'd have been killed / imprisoned. Maybe those peopel deserve as much a change for democracy and freedom as we do?

yep. everyone should be free. shall we liberate everyone?

I just think it's a bit pious for white kids with dreadlocks in college on mommy and daddys penny to be telling us how the Iraqi's probably are better off under their dictator than liberated by the US.

Main Entry: pi?ous
Pronunciation: 'pI-&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin pius
Date: 15th century
1 a : marked by or showing reverence for deity and devotion to divine worship b : marked by conspicuous religiosity
2 : sacred or devotional as distinct from the profane or secular : RELIGIOUS
3 : showing loyal reverence for a person or thing : DUTIFUL
4 a : marked by sham or hypocrisy b : marked by self-conscious virtue : VIRTUOUS
5 : deserving commendation : WORTHY
- pi?ous?ly adverb
- pi?ous?ness noun

Merriam-Webster Online: Pious


but that's beside the point. yes, it is ironic, but not really that surprising. it's the stupidest reason against the war, and sadly, it's the one most commonly heard. it's not the only one though. there are much better ones.

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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1473049 -

I'm happy for the Iraqi people, but I still think this war was a bad idea. We put OURSELVES in greater jeopardy because of this. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Al Queda and other terrorist organizations will be much more powerful after this war, as more and more people join their ranks.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: silversoul7]
    #1473078 -

word.

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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: ]
    #1473218 -

Al Q is more powerful? Seems like since 9/11 we've overthrown two arab nations, rid them of their authoritarian leaders, and destroyed numerous training camps.  Looking at it objectivly, we lost three thousand civilians, and they've lost their entier command structure and locations where they can train.    And whoever said that "neocon" is what AMerica is trying to "push" on other nations, Afghanistan had women killed who didn't wear their burhka's in public, that sounds a bit more conservative than Rummy trying to hide some titties on a statue :smile:  Of course, you'll totally ignore that and flame me again, but thats what flamers like you do :smile:

Pz


Johnny R


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As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1473234 -

And whoever said that "neocon" is what AMerica is trying to "push" on other nations, Afghanistan had women killed who didn't wear their burhka's in public, that sounds a bit more conservative than Rummy trying to hide some titties on a statue Of course, you'll totally ignore that and flame me again, but thats what flamers like you do

this should be addressed to annapurna, not me, as it is a response to her statements and beliefs, not mine.

i stand by my belief that this war will make america more widely hated and subject to terrorist attacks.

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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: ]
    #1473382 -

Quote:
Seems like since 9/11 we've overthrown two arab nations, rid them of their authoritarian leaders, and destroyed numerous training camps. Looking at it objectivly, we lost three thousand civilians, and they've lost their entier command structure and locations where they can train.


HAHAHA. They are terrorists, not nationalists! They don't need a country, training grounds, and complex political command structures. They need loosely connected cells, operating independently of each other and a central command. Really they only needed more manpower and strong ideological leaders. All we have done is to create more of these. As long as they have the man power and emotional/religious/fanatic will power, they can train at your local elementary school playground, on the fucking monkey bars and tire swings.


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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1473393 -

irrelevant.

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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: ]
    #1473406 -

whats irrelevant?


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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1473409 -

whether the training camps were useful to terrorists or not. it's irrelevant to the point of the letter. it's irrelevant to the main idea.

if anything, the assumption that the training camps weren't very useful to Al Qaeda strengthens the case made in the letter.

still, i don't think they built them for no reason.

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Re: Something for Anti-War'ers to consider :) [Re: ]
    #1473430 -

Perhaps it was irrelevant to the topic of this post, but consider it a sidebar, I was only comment on the segment I quoted, to which I believe my post had at least some relevance. Let me explain:

We have taken from them, the things that make us powerful. They have done without these things in the past; they are unnesiccary for their style of 'military' (used loosely) force. Our actions have only aided them in gaining in the things that make them strong, namely man and will power. Land can be found elsewhere, training camps can be rebuilt. True they didn't build them for no reason, but its a fricken camp, not very hard to relocate.

jssmthrfcknchrst


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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