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OfflineMeph
Synesthesiac

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 1,568
Loc: Qu?bec
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Evolving]
    #1399841 - 03/22/03 06:06 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

By protesting for peace and yet simultaneously engaging of acts of violence or vandalism, these dummies do more to hurt their cause with those who may be open to persuasion.




Just like Bush who, in the name of freedom, decides to throw hundreds of bombs over Irak.


--------------------
I'm a bipedal carbon-based pseudo-random number generator.

Demonstration: 152.



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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Meph]
    #1400673 - 03/22/03 01:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

By protesting for peace and yet simultaneously engaging of acts of violence or vandalism, these dummies do more to hurt their cause with those who may be open to persuasion.




Just like Bush who, in the name of freedom, decides to throw hundreds of bombs over Irak.



Are you implying that Bush's actions justify violating the rights of and acts of vandalism against third parties? Didn't your mother ever tell you that two wrongs do not make a right? It is precisely this kind of juvenile mindset which hampers the anti-war viewpoint, damaging it's crediblity and serving to create more opposition to the protestors. If the protestors were PEOPLE OF PRINCIPLE, they would not engage in such conduct, nor would they condone it.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineMeph
Synesthesiac

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 1,568
Loc: Qu?bec
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Evolving]
    #1402548 - 03/23/03 07:39 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I am puzzled. My post was very short, yet you still managed to misinterpret it.

Did I, in one way or another, defend the protestors who were arrested? Read my post again. I did not.

I was just making a link here, I was not defending or attacking anyone. President Bush kills in the name of freedom, and some protestors broke a few windows in the name of peace. I'm not saying they were right to do so. In fact, I think that what they did was indeed stupid and immature.

Because, as absurd as it may seem, those protestors are in fact propagating Bush's way of thinking, but to a much lesser degree: it's okay to do wrong to get what you want. We don't need people like this. In my opinon, without them, Baghdad would not be in flames right now.

Evolving, you do not need to attack me with childish words ("Didn't your mother ever tell you that...") to prove your point. Open-mindedness is all about being able to discuss without provoking each other. I did not attack you in any way, and your being a mod does not give you the right to take me for an idiot, when you're miles away from what I was trying to say.


--------------------
I'm a bipedal carbon-based pseudo-random number generator.

Demonstration: 152.



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OfflineAngry Mycologist
Spontaneouslycombusting

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 1,282
Loc: Galapagos
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Xlea321]
    #1403106 - 03/23/03 11:43 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Alex, I am still curious as to why you have not answered Inny's post. He made an excellent statement about loop-holes in your argument and you have yet to respond?


--------------------
The proper penalty of ignorance, which is of course that those who don't know should learn from those who do... - Plato


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Phred]
    #1403272 - 03/23/03 12:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


People have the right to assemble freely and express their opinions.

They do not have the right to destroy property, obstruct public thoroughfares, trespass on private property, etc.





Obstruct public thoroughfares?

thoroughfares?

If you think every one of these people that were arrested did one of the things on your list, including etc., your naive.

That is what's being implied, right?

Like the documented attitudes on this thread...members of the authority share these 'what he said' attitudes.

There is a will being assertive here. In this situtation.





--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Angry Mycologist]
    #1403273 - 03/23/03 12:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You'll learn, like most of us have, that Alex does not answer questions unless he can somehow blame them on the United States or america in general. We have two clauses that were made by a secret unnamed source. They are as follows:

Alex Clause A - when asked for a source, reply that it is not necessary to provide sources for common knowledge. If the "knowledge" in question is false, reply that you have no time to "spoonfeed" the questioner and that he must do his own research.


Alex Clause B - Never answer a question; instead ask three new ones and insist they be answered ahead of the one you were asked. Repeat ad infinitum.

you will soon learn that it is useless to reply to him with any form of respect or seriousness.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Phred]
    #1403274 - 03/23/03 12:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


People have the right to assemble freely and express their opinions.

They do not have the right to destroy property, obstruct public thoroughfares, trespass on private property, etc.





Obstruct public thoroughfares?

thoroughfares?

If you think every one of these people that were arrested did one of the things on your list, including etc., your naive.

That is what's being implied, right?

Like the documented attitudes on this thread...members of the authority share these 'what he said' attitudes.

There is a will being assertive here.





--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1403279 - 03/23/03 12:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

If you think every one of these people that were arrested did one of the things on your list, including etc., your naive.




Then you obviously have access to blotter reports in San Fransisco, right? If not then you are either blind or choose not to pay attention.

Quote:

Like the documented attitudes on this thread...members of the authority share these 'what he said' attitudes.



yeah and a majority of them arte libbies, but i'm splitting hairs i suppose.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1403314 - 03/23/03 01:02 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:



Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets get this into some perspective. A few kids getting angry doesn't compare to dropping 3000 bombs on fucking Baghdad. If we want to throw anyone in jail Bush and Powell should be the first in.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Tu Quoque

Typical alpo...i'm beginning to pity you as well.







Tu Quoque?

Tu Quoque says..."you should accept my postion because the other postion is just as bad."

What Alpo is saying is..."If you want to arrest violent fucks, why not start with the missle wielding types first"



--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1403325 - 03/23/03 01:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Then you obviously have access to blotter reports in San Fransisco, right? If not then you are either blind or choose not to pay attention.





What is a 'blotter report?'



--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1403362 - 03/23/03 01:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

a blotter report is a freedom of information list of all arrests made on any particular day.

as for the TU Quoque argument, Alex uses this all the time just as you've shown. Thanks.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineLittleBen
Feed Me A StrayCat

Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 202
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1403399 - 03/23/03 01:38 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Its amazing what has changed since the Vietnam protests. What changed so much? Many Americans remember soldiers comming home and being spat on. Though we have many dedicated protesters, we have gained a great respect for our troups. Is this why current musicians havent released a mass of protest music as happend during the late sixties? Aside from the Beastie Boys I havent heard anything. What is going on? Some are saying its that weve learned from our mistakes, and want the safty of our troups, but that shouldnt stop protesting all together. I dont get it, but Im all fucked up.


--------------------
Gaia, as you awaken, I heal myself. As I awaken, you are healed.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1403400 - 03/23/03 01:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Oh.

No of course not. But I've seen what goes on at those protests, and I have seen the totally innocent be harrassed at events like that.

Even if I did, what would a 'blotter report' tell me? Who writes them? The police? Hardly an unbiased source of info for arrests!!!

It's like saying everyone in jail is guilty. It just ain't so.

Are you privy to the blotter reports on what most of us have learned about Alpo?

What have I shown in regards to Tu Quoque? You still don't know. Better read that post again. Alpo made a logically sound arguement in regards to the efficiency of cleaning the world of violent fucks.


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


Edited by carbonhoots (03/23/03 01:47 PM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1403439 - 03/23/03 01:55 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

No of course not. But I've seen what goes on at those protests, and I have seen the totally innocent be harrassed at events like that.




so to say that other people are naive because they believe that these offenders were not innocent would be a kin to you being naive enough to think that they were not doing anything wrong and abiding by the laws of the city and the police were just being big meanies. You couldn't of known what the 1000+ people were doing so you see the contradiction you're in at the moment.

Quote:

It's like saying everyone in jail is guilty. It just ain't so.




pure speculation...and no it's different.

Quote:

What have I shown in regards to Tu Quoque? You still don't know.




No it described Alex as we know him. No need trying to bail him out now.

Quote:

Alpo made a logically sound arguement in regards to the efficiency of cleaning the world of violent fucks.




First of all he has never made a logical argument so you're losing credability by the moment.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1404222 - 03/23/03 06:52 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You sound panicked inny.

Please explain why it is ok for your hero George Bush to commit violent crime and break international law with impunity and yet you feel that a few kids breaking a shop window must be jailed.





--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Xlea321]
    #1404238 - 03/23/03 07:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Please explain why it is ok for your hero George Bush to commit violent crime and break international law with impunity and yet you feel that a few kids breaking a shop window must be jailed.




Why is it ok for people to destroy the property of others?
Even if Bush is breaking laws (this is debatable, but I won't get into it) that does not mean that others can as well. Thats like robbing someone and saying it is ok because there was a murder down the street last week.
Think about what you are saying Alex. You really need to work on that.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: z@z.com]
    #1404246 - 03/23/03 07:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

No, read what I'm saying and try and understand. You still havn't been able to grasp it.

If we are prepared to jail kids for breaking shop windows we must also jail Bush for his terrible crimes. Otherwise the law is meaningless.



--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Xlea321]
    #1404254 - 03/23/03 07:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

"this is debatable, but I won't get into it"

I'm not missing the point. If Bush has broken the law he must be punished for it. No man is above the law. However, whether or not Bush broke the law does not change the fact that some protesters were breaking the law.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: z@z.com]
    #1404266 - 03/23/03 07:17 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Never said it did. I would be quite happy to see the kids breaking windows jailed if Bush was in the cell next to them.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Xlea321]
    #1404274 - 03/23/03 07:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Never said it did. I would be quite happy to see the kids breaking windows jailed if Bush was in the cell next to them.



You made a qualifying statement. So if Bush doesn't go down then neither should the kids breaking windows?
That is what you said you believe, but is that right, or do you need to work on your communication skills?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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