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Offlinepattern
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US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests
    #1397415 - 03/21/03 06:28 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A285-2003Mar20.html

Reuters
Thursday, March 20, 2003; 8:32 PM

By Adam Tanner


SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Police arrested more than 1,000 people in San Francisco on Thursday -- the most demonstrators taken into custody on a single day in the city in 22 years -- as tens of thousands protested across America against the U.S. war in Iraq.

"If this was happening in every city, there would either be martial law or an end to war," said one Berkeley student who chained himself to 16 others on a major San Francisco street.

Protests took place in other cities across the United States as well as in European capitals.

During morning rush hour in the Washington D.C., more than 100 demonstrators temporarily shut down the Key Bridge, a major route from Virginia into Washington's Georgetown neighborhood and three were arrested.

About 100 protesters later gathered in pouring rain on the streets near the White House, and about 350 demonstrators blocked evening rush hour traffic on a main Washington thoroughfare.

In New York, which took the brunt of the September 11, 2001 attack that President Bush has repeatedly cited as an example of the threat to America, "September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows" condemned what they called an illegal and immoral U.S. war.

Anti-war demonstrators overflowed police barriers during rush hour in Times Square, completely shutting New York's Broadway for two blocks below 42nd Street.

"A year and a half ago you were heroes," one onlooker shouted as police forcibly led away one demonstrator. "Don't become our enemies."

SUPPORT FOR TROOPS

Under sunny skies and temperatures in the mid-60s F, San Francisco protesters started early and continued strongly through the evening in actions aimed at choking off traffic across the city.

Police in riot gear made at least 1,000 arrests, and the numbers continued to rise into the evening, a spokeswoman said, adding it was the highest total in San Francisco in 22 years. Some were kept in temporary pens erected on the street.

Many towns in America displayed support for the troops, albeit in a quieter way. Towns like Waxahachie, south of Dallas, put up yellow ribbons in support of U.S. troops.

Some yelled in other cities at the protesters.

"They are nothing but traitors. This does nothing but give aid and support to the enemy," said Debbie Petee in San Francisco, a Bush supporter.

Protesters across that nation said opposing war was not at odds with being an American patriot. "It's not like we're burning flags," said Danielle Geroux, a student at an anti-war rally at Florida's capital, Tallahassee. "We just don't want people to die."

Vietnam veteran Mike Ward, 56, who participated in protest marches in the 1960s, wore his combat ribbons in San Francisco so that no one would question his patriotism.

HISSES AT HARVARD

Students gathered at campuses across the nation, including at Harvard University, where hundreds walked out of classes at noon and at least 1,500 people gathered at a rally.

Students at California's Berkeley campus, a hotbed of dissent against the Vietnam War in the 1960s and early 1970s, occupied the main administration building for several hours before at least 120 were arrested,

Police in Pittsburgh fought with some protesters and arrested dozens.

At San Francisco's Federal Courthouse, at least two protesters took medicine that induced them to vomit. Some in the crowd flew Iraqi, Palestinian and French flags. In some areas, police charged protesters to carry them off. Sparks flew as officials sawed through chains linking protesters. Some of the city's fabled cable cars were halted.

In Madison, Wisconsin, a traditional hotbed of protest, police investigated vandalism at the state Republican party headquarters on Wednesday night in which a half-dozen windows were broken and paint bombs were tossed around.

The war also clouded the upcoming Academy Awards. California's governor on Thursday assigned a National Guard unit to protect the Oscars, but at least one prominent star withdrew from the ceremonies, saying now was not the time to celebrate. Will Smith pulled out of Sunday's ceremony and other stars including Dustin Hoffman said they will wear peace sign pins, doves and even duct tape to protest the war in Iraq. More than 100,000 protested in Germany. In London, thousands of British anti-war campaigners blocked roads and scuffled with police. More than 10,000 people, mostly students, surged through Paris chanting anti-war slogans and some burned the U.S. flag.

Reuters

America: Land of the free?  Not anymore.  :mad: 


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OfflinePhred
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: pattern]
    #1397446 - 03/21/03 06:37 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

pattern writes:

America: Land of the free? Not anymore.

People have the right to assemble freely and express their opinions.

They do not have the right to destroy property, obstruct public thoroughfares, trespass on private property, etc.

pinky


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Phred]
    #1397503 - 03/21/03 06:53 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

^^^^^ What he said.

Throw the dumb fucks in jail.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRed_White_and_Brainwashed
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Phred]
    #1397516 - 03/21/03 06:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

That is true, but it will be interesting to see how the Homeland Security Act will change everything. I don't like uninformed pacifist protesters. Theres nothing wrong with being Anti-war, as long as you have a better solution. Just don't throw old the ol' "war is bad, hug everyone" bullshit. I would be anti-war all the way but I don't have a realistic solution that would take care of things so I can't complain. Just my two cents.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: pattern]
    #1397564 - 03/21/03 07:05 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

i guess that's what happens when the crowd blocks traffic, throws bricks, rebar, bicycles and other materials at the police and into traffic. All 1000 of those arrested should be bitch slapped because they are giving those that are peacfully protesting a VERY bad name.

Please tell me you're not defending them.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (03/21/03 07:08 AM)


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Offlinepattern
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1397621 - 03/21/03 07:17 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

These aren't riots. They are peace protests. In a free country they let the protests run until people get bored and go home.

Its only in the USA and other warring countries that they are mass-arresting protesters.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: pattern]
    #1397626 - 03/21/03 07:19 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

If the protesters want to be taken serisously, they should refrain from acts of vandalism and violence. Otherwise they appear to be nothing but hypocrites and spoiled middle class socialist brats.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (03/21/03 07:21 AM)


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Offlinepattern
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Evolving]
    #1397638 - 03/21/03 07:21 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

That true... but Im not sure where you are getting the impression that all of these protesters are rioting.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: pattern]
    #1397647 - 03/21/03 07:23 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

These aren't riots. They are peace protests.



then what do you call throwing these materials? It was a riot. Peace protests are not an excuse to have social disobediance, peace protest should contain NO violence in an area that does not hamper the portion od society that doesn't want to participate. Basically they're pushing their beliefs through duress, and it's failing miserably.

Quote:

Its only in the USA and other warring countries that they are mass-arresting protesters.



see above.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: pattern]
    #1397683 - 03/21/03 07:33 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

There is a big difference between a peace protest and a peaceful protest. Do not confuse the two. I agree with everybody else. You cannot block traffic, or destroy property. Two big "no-no's". Blocking traffic is actually pretty dangerous to public safety, and looting and destroying property can incite a riot. Your ass should be thrown in jail for doing that shit. It's not like the police were beating the protestors like at the '68 Dem. Nat'l Convention. You break the law, you go to jail.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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Offlinepattern
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1397729 - 03/21/03 07:50 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Any protest that is over 100 people blocks traffic. I'm not aware of all the laws in the US. If that is illegal, then I stand by my statement: America is no longer the land of the free. I can protest on the streets in Canada, and block traffic, without getting arrested.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: pattern]
    #1397732 - 03/21/03 07:52 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

That's too bad.

Why should you be able to block traffic and fuck up other peoples day?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: pattern]
    #1397753 - 03/21/03 08:04 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Any protest that is over 100 people blocks traffic.

Lol, what? How does any protest that is over 100 people have to block traffic? Is this some sort of unwritten rule that I am unaware of? There are plenty of protests and rallies that are well in excess of 10000 people that are peaceful and do not block traffic. Don't be retarded.

America is no longer the land of the free.

You are not free to block traffic as A, it's a matter of public safety, and B, you are imposing upon the rights of other citizens. That is illegal. If you cannot comprehend this then you have no business arguing about the situation.

I would even bet in Canoodia that you cannot legally block traffic. I would bet good (American) money on that. As I said, it is a danger to public safety. If emergency vehicles need to get through, how can they?


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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OfflinePhred
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: pattern]
    #1397754 - 03/21/03 08:05 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

pattern writes:

Any protest that is over 100 people blocks traffic.

On a street with no sidewalks, maybe.

I can protest on the streets in Canada, and block traffic, without getting arrested.

My how things have changed since I left Canada. You sure as hell couldn't do that in the Trudeau years in the Sixties and Seventies. I was whacked upside the head twice and jailed twice for doing basically that.

pinky



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OfflineSuperSpun
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Phred]
    #1397789 - 03/21/03 08:18 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Dude, these dumb fucks that are in these anti war protests should be thrown in jail. Fuck these stupid father fuckers. They should all burn in hell. Why don't they just stay home and fuck their fathers like they usually do.


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Not quite sure what happened


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: SuperSpun]
    #1397806 - 03/21/03 08:30 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

What a poignant, intelligent, and mature post.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: SuperSpun]
    #1397813 - 03/21/03 08:34 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You're not helping ya know...?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinepattern
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Phred]
    #1397827 - 03/21/03 08:43 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

> On a street with no sidewalks, maybe.

They will all cross the street using a crosswalk too? After all this is a peace protest and they wont break any laws, especially jaywalking laws.

I meant downtown, where the protests are happening. Any large protest cannot be expected to stay off the streets and not block traffic.

> My how things have changed since I left Canada.

Its going better!

My two cents.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1397837 - 03/21/03 08:46 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

then what do you call throwing these materials?

Lets get this into some perspective. A few kids getting angry doesn't compare to dropping 3000 bombs on fucking Baghdad. If we want to throw anyone in jail Bush and Powell should be the first in.


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Xlea321]
    #1397843 - 03/21/03 08:48 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

One has nothing to do with the other. Nice try.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1397851 - 03/21/03 08:51 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

So if George Bush murders and slaughters thousands of innocent people in complete defiance of international law it's good, but if a few kids break some shop windows they should be thrown in jail?

Helluva wierd world you live in man.


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1397855 - 03/21/03 08:52 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Well, they do. I take that back. However Alex, you are really searching here aren't you? Completley illogical. You hurt my head.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1397866 - 03/21/03 08:55 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

What's illogical son? Bush is breaking international law, causing catastrophic damage to an entire country and killing innocent people.

The peace protestors are putting through a few shop windows.

Doesn't take an expert in logic to realise who needs jailing here.


--------------------
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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Xlea321]
    #1397870 - 03/21/03 08:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Lets get this into some perspective. A few kids getting angry doesn't compare to dropping 3000 bombs on fucking Baghdad. If we want to throw anyone in jail Bush and Powell should be the first in.





Tu Quoque

Typical alpo...i'm beginning to pity you as well.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Xlea321]
    #1397871 - 03/21/03 08:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Umm, when have I ever said that what we are doing is good? But trying to compare one to the other is completely asinine. You could drive a cement truck through the gaps in your logic. With liberals like you, who needs conservatives?


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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Offlinepattern
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Xlea321]
    #1397872 - 03/21/03 08:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Exactly. Lets keep things in perspective here.

No one is getting hurt in these protests, except some of the protesters.

Its not a big deal when some people protest. Its also not a big deal they get arrested. But it does reflect the state of America.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1397881 - 03/21/03 08:58 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You could drive a cement truck through the gaps in your logic.

Please do so. So far all you've done is avoid any attempt at a reply and thrown insults.

Let me hear your defence of your glorious leader Mr Bush...


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: pattern]
    #1397882 - 03/21/03 08:59 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It's a big deal when people can't get to work. I have no way of knowing if it happened but it would be a big deal if an emergency vehicle had to get through.

People have the right to protest. They don't have the right to impede traffic.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (03/21/03 09:01 AM)


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: pattern]
    #1397891 - 03/21/03 09:04 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Um, it's a big deal to somebody who has an important meeting to get to, or an important delivery to make, or important to the shopekeeper who has a brick thrown through their window. Those are the people getting hurt. You cannot trespass on private property, what don't you understand about that? You cannot destroy private or public property. You cannot impede the flow of traffic. These are not difficult concepts to graps. Think! In America you are free to protest, and free to speak how you wish, as long as you do not violate the rights of another human being. That is the law.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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Offlinepattern
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1397892 - 03/21/03 09:04 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

> It's a big deal when people can't get to work.

Depends on your definition of "big deal", which we disagree on. 

You are falling into Alex's trap.  :wink:

> People have the right to protest. They don't have the right to impede traffic.

We can't have one without the other.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Xlea321]
    #1397893 - 03/21/03 09:05 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I think i can actually here you cry from here...


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Xlea321]
    #1397900 - 03/21/03 09:07 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

By protesting for peace and yet simultaneously engaging of acts of violence or vandalism, these dummies do more to hurt their cause with those who may be open to persuasion. They are nothing more than hypocrites and will be perceived as such by others. Their behaviour may indeed achieve the opposite of what their stated desires are. It's called 'shooting yourself in the foot.' If they are too stupid to realize this, they do not deserve to be taken seriously.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Evolving]
    #1397906 - 03/21/03 09:10 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I wonder if the same people that are pro-rioting would feel the same way if the Christian coalition staged a 10,000 person riot..er "demonstration"?


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Offlinepattern
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Evolving]
    #1397908 - 03/21/03 09:11 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

> If they are too stupid to realize this,
> they do not deserve to be taken seriously.

They are being taken seriously, they are being arrested. Bush didn't take them seriously before, so some of them are changing their tactics.

The new tactics are stupid though: by being arrested they lose the ability to protest further.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1397913 - 03/21/03 09:15 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I wonder if the same people that are pro-rioting would feel the same way if the Christian coalition staged a 10,000 person riot..er "demonstration"?



I think you know the answer to that. Double standards infect the leftist idealogues to the core.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (03/21/03 09:24 AM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: pattern]
    #1397917 - 03/21/03 09:17 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

They are being taken seriously, they are being arrested



You do know what they call it when you throw objects that can hurt you at other people, right?

ASSAULT!!!!...which is an arrestable offense. And yes, even in Canada.

why can't you understand that this is Illegal?


--------------------

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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Xlea321]
    #1397933 - 03/21/03 09:25 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Well first off. Bush has not dropped, nor will he drop "3000 bombs" on Bagdad. He has not, nor will he be slaughtering "thousands" of Iraqi's. Anybody that is fighting for Saddam is hardly innocent. In any war there will be some collateral dammage however. But the areas which the US is attacking are not residential areas. In fact most citizens refuse to travel through or live near any of the areas in whcih Saddam, the Bath party, or the Elite Republican Gaurd are located. If Saddam choses to use human shields, their blood is on his hands, not America's. Whatever dammage that we create, we will be cleaning up too.

Do I agree with what our Bush is doing? Not completely. Not at all infact. Massively distorting the truth to somehow attempt to justify other illegal actions is completely rediculous.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1399223 - 03/21/03 07:19 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Um, it's a big deal to somebody who has an important meeting to get to, or an important delivery to make, or important to the shopekeeper who has a brick thrown through their window

How do you think the people of Baghdad are getting to work these days?


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Offlinepattern
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1399270 - 03/21/03 07:48 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

You do know what they call it when you throw objects that can hurt you at other people, right?

ASSAULT!!!!...which is an arrestable offense. And yes, even in Canada.

why can't you understand that this is Illegal? 




I understand it is illegal, but I don't care.  The damage done was miniscule.

Baghdad: that's some damage, that bothers me.  Is it ok because it is legal?

I see in terms of the damage done, not of which law was broken.  Some Canadians just think like that, eh.  :wink: 


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: pattern]
    #1399425 - 03/21/03 10:34 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Baghdad: that's some damage, that bothers me. Is it ok because it is legal?

It isn't even legal. Most law experts consider a clear breach of international law.


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OfflineMeph
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Evolving]
    #1399841 - 03/22/03 06:06 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

By protesting for peace and yet simultaneously engaging of acts of violence or vandalism, these dummies do more to hurt their cause with those who may be open to persuasion.




Just like Bush who, in the name of freedom, decides to throw hundreds of bombs over Irak.


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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Meph]
    #1400673 - 03/22/03 01:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

By protesting for peace and yet simultaneously engaging of acts of violence or vandalism, these dummies do more to hurt their cause with those who may be open to persuasion.




Just like Bush who, in the name of freedom, decides to throw hundreds of bombs over Irak.



Are you implying that Bush's actions justify violating the rights of and acts of vandalism against third parties? Didn't your mother ever tell you that two wrongs do not make a right? It is precisely this kind of juvenile mindset which hampers the anti-war viewpoint, damaging it's crediblity and serving to create more opposition to the protestors. If the protestors were PEOPLE OF PRINCIPLE, they would not engage in such conduct, nor would they condone it.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineMeph
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Evolving]
    #1402548 - 03/23/03 07:39 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I am puzzled. My post was very short, yet you still managed to misinterpret it.

Did I, in one way or another, defend the protestors who were arrested? Read my post again. I did not.

I was just making a link here, I was not defending or attacking anyone. President Bush kills in the name of freedom, and some protestors broke a few windows in the name of peace. I'm not saying they were right to do so. In fact, I think that what they did was indeed stupid and immature.

Because, as absurd as it may seem, those protestors are in fact propagating Bush's way of thinking, but to a much lesser degree: it's okay to do wrong to get what you want. We don't need people like this. In my opinon, without them, Baghdad would not be in flames right now.

Evolving, you do not need to attack me with childish words ("Didn't your mother ever tell you that...") to prove your point. Open-mindedness is all about being able to discuss without provoking each other. I did not attack you in any way, and your being a mod does not give you the right to take me for an idiot, when you're miles away from what I was trying to say.


--------------------
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OfflineAngry Mycologist
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Xlea321]
    #1403106 - 03/23/03 11:43 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Alex, I am still curious as to why you have not answered Inny's post. He made an excellent statement about loop-holes in your argument and you have yet to respond?


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The proper penalty of ignorance, which is of course that those who don't know should learn from those who do... - Plato


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Phred]
    #1403272 - 03/23/03 12:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


People have the right to assemble freely and express their opinions.

They do not have the right to destroy property, obstruct public thoroughfares, trespass on private property, etc.





Obstruct public thoroughfares?

thoroughfares?

If you think every one of these people that were arrested did one of the things on your list, including etc., your naive.

That is what's being implied, right?

Like the documented attitudes on this thread...members of the authority share these 'what he said' attitudes.

There is a will being assertive here. In this situtation.





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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Angry Mycologist]
    #1403273 - 03/23/03 12:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You'll learn, like most of us have, that Alex does not answer questions unless he can somehow blame them on the United States or america in general. We have two clauses that were made by a secret unnamed source. They are as follows:

Alex Clause A - when asked for a source, reply that it is not necessary to provide sources for common knowledge. If the "knowledge" in question is false, reply that you have no time to "spoonfeed" the questioner and that he must do his own research.


Alex Clause B - Never answer a question; instead ask three new ones and insist they be answered ahead of the one you were asked. Repeat ad infinitum.

you will soon learn that it is useless to reply to him with any form of respect or seriousness.


--------------------

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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Phred]
    #1403274 - 03/23/03 12:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


People have the right to assemble freely and express their opinions.

They do not have the right to destroy property, obstruct public thoroughfares, trespass on private property, etc.





Obstruct public thoroughfares?

thoroughfares?

If you think every one of these people that were arrested did one of the things on your list, including etc., your naive.

That is what's being implied, right?

Like the documented attitudes on this thread...members of the authority share these 'what he said' attitudes.

There is a will being assertive here.





--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1403279 - 03/23/03 12:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

If you think every one of these people that were arrested did one of the things on your list, including etc., your naive.




Then you obviously have access to blotter reports in San Fransisco, right? If not then you are either blind or choose not to pay attention.

Quote:

Like the documented attitudes on this thread...members of the authority share these 'what he said' attitudes.



yeah and a majority of them arte libbies, but i'm splitting hairs i suppose.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1403314 - 03/23/03 01:02 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:



Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets get this into some perspective. A few kids getting angry doesn't compare to dropping 3000 bombs on fucking Baghdad. If we want to throw anyone in jail Bush and Powell should be the first in.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Tu Quoque

Typical alpo...i'm beginning to pity you as well.







Tu Quoque?

Tu Quoque says..."you should accept my postion because the other postion is just as bad."

What Alpo is saying is..."If you want to arrest violent fucks, why not start with the missle wielding types first"



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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1403325 - 03/23/03 01:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Then you obviously have access to blotter reports in San Fransisco, right? If not then you are either blind or choose not to pay attention.





What is a 'blotter report?'



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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1403362 - 03/23/03 01:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

a blotter report is a freedom of information list of all arrests made on any particular day.

as for the TU Quoque argument, Alex uses this all the time just as you've shown. Thanks.


--------------------

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OfflineLittleBen
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1403399 - 03/23/03 01:38 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Its amazing what has changed since the Vietnam protests. What changed so much? Many Americans remember soldiers comming home and being spat on. Though we have many dedicated protesters, we have gained a great respect for our troups. Is this why current musicians havent released a mass of protest music as happend during the late sixties? Aside from the Beastie Boys I havent heard anything. What is going on? Some are saying its that weve learned from our mistakes, and want the safty of our troups, but that shouldnt stop protesting all together. I dont get it, but Im all fucked up.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1403400 - 03/23/03 01:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Oh.

No of course not. But I've seen what goes on at those protests, and I have seen the totally innocent be harrassed at events like that.

Even if I did, what would a 'blotter report' tell me? Who writes them? The police? Hardly an unbiased source of info for arrests!!!

It's like saying everyone in jail is guilty. It just ain't so.

Are you privy to the blotter reports on what most of us have learned about Alpo?

What have I shown in regards to Tu Quoque? You still don't know. Better read that post again. Alpo made a logically sound arguement in regards to the efficiency of cleaning the world of violent fucks.


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


Edited by carbonhoots (03/23/03 01:47 PM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1403439 - 03/23/03 01:55 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

No of course not. But I've seen what goes on at those protests, and I have seen the totally innocent be harrassed at events like that.




so to say that other people are naive because they believe that these offenders were not innocent would be a kin to you being naive enough to think that they were not doing anything wrong and abiding by the laws of the city and the police were just being big meanies. You couldn't of known what the 1000+ people were doing so you see the contradiction you're in at the moment.

Quote:

It's like saying everyone in jail is guilty. It just ain't so.




pure speculation...and no it's different.

Quote:

What have I shown in regards to Tu Quoque? You still don't know.




No it described Alex as we know him. No need trying to bail him out now.

Quote:

Alpo made a logically sound arguement in regards to the efficiency of cleaning the world of violent fucks.




First of all he has never made a logical argument so you're losing credability by the moment.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1404222 - 03/23/03 06:52 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You sound panicked inny.

Please explain why it is ok for your hero George Bush to commit violent crime and break international law with impunity and yet you feel that a few kids breaking a shop window must be jailed.





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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Xlea321]
    #1404238 - 03/23/03 07:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Please explain why it is ok for your hero George Bush to commit violent crime and break international law with impunity and yet you feel that a few kids breaking a shop window must be jailed.




Why is it ok for people to destroy the property of others?
Even if Bush is breaking laws (this is debatable, but I won't get into it) that does not mean that others can as well. Thats like robbing someone and saying it is ok because there was a murder down the street last week.
Think about what you are saying Alex. You really need to work on that.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: z@z.com]
    #1404246 - 03/23/03 07:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

No, read what I'm saying and try and understand. You still havn't been able to grasp it.

If we are prepared to jail kids for breaking shop windows we must also jail Bush for his terrible crimes. Otherwise the law is meaningless.



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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Xlea321]
    #1404254 - 03/23/03 07:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

"this is debatable, but I won't get into it"

I'm not missing the point. If Bush has broken the law he must be punished for it. No man is above the law. However, whether or not Bush broke the law does not change the fact that some protesters were breaking the law.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: z@z.com]
    #1404266 - 03/23/03 07:17 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Never said it did. I would be quite happy to see the kids breaking windows jailed if Bush was in the cell next to them.


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Xlea321]
    #1404274 - 03/23/03 07:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Never said it did. I would be quite happy to see the kids breaking windows jailed if Bush was in the cell next to them.



You made a qualifying statement. So if Bush doesn't go down then neither should the kids breaking windows?
That is what you said you believe, but is that right, or do you need to work on your communication skills?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: z@z.com]
    #1404279 - 03/23/03 07:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Do you believe the law should apply to everyone? Or only some?


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Xlea321]
    #1404282 - 03/23/03 07:24 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It should apply to everyone. I truly believe that.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: z@z.com]
    #1404284 - 03/23/03 07:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Me too.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: z@z.com]
    #1404379 - 03/23/03 08:08 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

z@z.com writes:

It should apply to everyone. I truly believe that.

See, you haven't been around here long enough to know that Alex believes more than just that the law should apply to everyone. He believes that unless every lawbreaker is prosecuted, none should be.

When he says,

"If we are prepared to jail kids for breaking shop windows we must also jail Bush for his terrible crimes. Otherwise the law is meaningless,"

that is just one concrete example of the Alex principle. Another is that he says we musn't whup Hussein unless we also whup all the other nations in violation of UN resolutions. Leaving UN resolutions aside and looking at it from the humanitarian aspect, he says we mustn't remove one ruthless dictator unless we remove all ruthless dictators.

Do you see the logic here? Unless it is possible to correct all problems of a certain nature simultaneously, we musn't attempt to correct any. To do otherwise is to act hypocritically.

pinky


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Xlea321]
    #1404592 - 03/23/03 11:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

You sound panicked inny.



there is not a thing you could say that would make me panicked. Don't flatter yourself.

Quote:

Please explain why it is ok for your hero George Bush to commit violent crime and break international law with impunity and yet you feel that a few kids breaking a shop window must be jailed.



you don't get it do you? stay off the paint chips my man.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinezeronio
Stranger
Male

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Slovenia
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Phred]
    #1404612 - 03/24/03 12:16 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

that is just one concrete example of the Alex principle. Another is that he says we musn't whup Hussein unless we also whup all the other nations in violation of UN resolutions. Leaving UN resolutions aside and looking at it from the humanitarian aspect, he says we mustn't remove one ruthless dictator unless we remove all ruthless dictators.




Nobody expects that USA removes all ruthless dictators in the world. But it would be a really good start if USA stopped to support many ruthless dictators and governments that severly violate human rights, otherwise noone will ever believe that this war is about liberation of Iraqui people.
You cannot remove one and at the same time support others. It's stupid.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: US Anti-War Protests Flare, More Than 1,000 Arrests [Re: Phred]
    #1404617 - 03/24/03 12:19 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

He believes that unless every lawbreaker is prosecuted, none should be.

No, I believe in priorities. Before we concentrate our law resources on tackling a 14 year old kid breaking a window in san francisco we should look towards jailing the man currently raining thousands of tons of high-explosive onto cities and setting children on fire in direct breach of international law and the UN.

It really isn't that hard to understand.

Another is that he says we musn't whup Hussein unless we also whup all the other nations in violation of UN resolutions.

Is everyone equal under the law or not?

What kind of law do you wish to see? One where Shrub decides who should live and who should die? That may be your idea of a perfect world but it ain't mine.

Unless it is possible to correct all problems of a certain nature simultaneously

Excuse me? Have you been at the whippets again? Isreal has been flouting UN resolutions for 36 years and has never faced attack or any serious attempt to force it into line - not even the threat of sanctions. We need to have a principle of law here. We cannot simply leave the decisions to the whim of Shrub.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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