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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: blujay]
    #13946457 -

I don't think knowing the names of the arguments is that important, but that one is nonsense none the less. Obviously if that were true, something had to of occurred for god to be there in the first place.


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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: 28064212]
    #13946467 -

28064212 said:

:rofl:




:lolsy: gimme more! i wan more ludicrosity!


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want a cool color changing shroom gif that is easy on the eyes for YOUR shroomery background? 3 easy steps <-- click here

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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: bryguy27007] * 2
    #13946474 -

Gastronomicus said:
How far above my head?


3.248 Meters.

bryguy27007 said:
uber_aj said:
So if I told you that there's a flying spaghetti monster hovering above your head this very instant, you wouldn't know if that is true or not?


Of course I don't. I can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there. Doesn't mean it is there. I don't know shit.
:shrug:


That's so stupid though, it's the classical argument of noumena v phenomena. If you can only perceive phenomena and it's impossible to perceive noumena, then for all intents and purposes the noumena do not exist. How could you err by rejecting them?

In other words, if God and or the Flying Spaghetti Monster exist beyond our ability to perceive or understand, then he hasn't shown himself to us and is worthless. You can do no harm by rejecting the idea since it doesn't affect your plane of existence, but you can do a lot of harm by accepting it and using it to rationalize otherwise nonsensical actions that take place in your plane.


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A final message to my favorite online community

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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: 28064212]
    #13946503 -

28064212 said:

:rofl:


See, shit like that should be a crime. They put little 6-12 year olds in front of this shit every day for their entire childhood and proceed to make things "hip" into adolescence; and then nobody raises their hand to say: hey; I was raised with repeated expose to this, perhaps there's a self interest in my finding a particular conclusion?

Even a conflict of interest.

I mean, you're giving the money up. There are people living off that money. So they're going to do everything they can to perpetuate the interpretation of mythology as fact- as long as it gets people who make 6 figures to hand them checks for 10%.  Don't tell me this doesn't happen, either, I grew up in it aghast and disgusted a little more every day until I abandoned the "faith."

I was an active member, too, participating in events and helping support the cause... not some skeptical pew-sitter. I saw a lot of money go through those plates. There is no way such a system run by men subjective to the same emotions we all are could ever be completely righteous in the morally subjective and ethical eye of a true atheist... There is opportunity for abuse of that system at every turn of the head.


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wat man rly

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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: Compaq12986]
    #13946508 -

Compaq12986 said:
For the big bang theory to of happened there would of had to of been something.

What are you basing this on, and why do you assume that nothing existed when the big bang occurred?


Compaq12986 said:
Now something had to create that something to create the big bang.

Proof? Reality doesn't necessarily have to make sense to us; it could be that nothing created the big bang, even if this doesn't make sense to us.


Compaq12986 said:
Why is it that there has been the same reports from people who have died and or had near death experiences all have described the same thing?

The fact that you're asking this question tells me that you yourself don't know the answer; this is odd, because you seem to be using this question to bolster your argument.

People who have died are not able to report their "experience" of death; how many people have reported the same experience during near-death experiences? How many people have reported near-death experiences that are completely unlike any other reported near-death experience?


Compaq12986 said:
Past that what would account for ghosts in every culture since the begining of man?

Superstition, what else? :undecided:

:whoyougonnacall:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: uber_aj]
    #13946518 -

uber_aj said:
Gastronomicus said:
How far above my head?


3.248 Meters.

bryguy27007 said:
uber_aj said:
So if I told you that there's a flying spaghetti monster hovering above your head this very instant, you wouldn't know if that is true or not?


Of course I don't. I can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there. Doesn't mean it is there. I don't know shit.
:shrug:


That's so stupid though, it's the classical argument of noumena v phenomena. If you can only perceive phenomena and it's impossible to perceive noumena, then for all intents and purposes the noumena do not exist. How could you err by rejecting them?

In other words, if God and or the Flying Spaghetti Monster exist beyond our ability to perceive or understand, then he hasn't shown himself to us and is worthless. You can do no harm by rejecting the idea since it doesn't affect your plane of existence, but you can do a lot of harm by accepting it and using it to rationalize otherwise nonsensical actions that take place in your plane.



Who defines what is worthless? It may not play a role in your life up to this point, but who knows what will happen tomorrow? Maybe the FSM that has been hovering over my head my whole life will descend and grant me eternal life. I don't know what's going to happen. I believe that you can do harm by rejecting ideas because you shut yourself off from the infinite possibilites of the universe. I don't accept it either, so I'm not doing harm either way. I highly, highly, highly doubt that there is a FSM above my head, but I don't know shit. You must be a much smarter man than me to be able to know things with 100 percent certainty.


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The Psychedelic Salon -- Erowid -- MAPS -- The Genesis Generation

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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: Moo456]
    #13946537 -

Moo456 said:
I don't think knowing the names of the arguments is that important, but that one is nonsense none the less. Obviously if that were true, something had to of occurred for god to be there in the first place.


Yes it is. It is very important. Each of those arguments has a long and complex history. I suggest you start with St. Thomas Aquinas.

In it's day these two arguments (Ontological, Cosmological) in particular held water only briefly, immediately torn to shreds by their many philosopher cohorts of the middle ages; Kant is a good read.

Infinite recursion is one of three or four common attack conclusions that break an argument that is Cosmological in nature. Understanding the terms, their founders, and the history keeps us from spending all this time covering what's been done before a thousand times.

I shouldn't need to restate the flaws in a cosmological argument, identifying it as such should be enough that we can all nod our heads and move to the next conjecture. Any further deliberation will only be the opinions of the deliberators.


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wat man rly

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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: bryguy27007]
    #13946560 -

bryguy27007 said:
Who defines what is worthless? It may not play a role in your life up to this point, but who knows what will happen tomorrow? Maybe the FSM that has been hovering over my head my whole life will descend and grant me eternal life. I don't know what's going to happen. I believe that you can do harm by rejecting ideas because you shut yourself off from the infinite possibilites of the universe. I don't accept it either, so I'm not doing harm either way. I highly, highly, highly doubt that there is a FSM above my head, but I don't know shit. You must be a much smarter man than me to be able to know things with 100 percent certainty.


Congrats,

we live in a finite universe of finite possibility.

Sorry to ruin your delusion, it sounded fun.


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wat man rly

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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: blujay]
    #13946573 -

blujay said:
bryguy27007 said:
Who defines what is worthless? It may not play a role in your life up to this point, but who knows what will happen tomorrow? Maybe the FSM that has been hovering over my head my whole life will descend and grant me eternal life. I don't know what's going to happen. I believe that you can do harm by rejecting ideas because you shut yourself off from the infinite possibilites of the universe. I don't accept it either, so I'm not doing harm either way. I highly, highly, highly doubt that there is a FSM above my head, but I don't know shit. You must be a much smarter man than me to be able to know things with 100 percent certainty.


Congrats,

we live in a finite universe of finite possibility.

Sorry to ruin your delusion, it sounded fun.


Alright, you know much more than me. Forgive me if I don't take your word for it.


--------------------
The Psychedelic Salon -- Erowid -- MAPS -- The Genesis Generation

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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: blujay]
    #13946603 -

To you it is. Why does the history of an argument matter? That just makes more bias. Besides what if someone comes up with a new one just slightly different than an existing one? Instead of associating them, one could just listen and form a response.


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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: bryguy27007] * 3
    #13946610 -

bryguy27007 said:
blujay said:
bryguy27007 said:
Who defines what is worthless? It may not play a role in your life up to this point, but who knows what will happen tomorrow? Maybe the FSM that has been hovering over my head my whole life will descend and grant me eternal life. I don't know what's going to happen. I believe that you can do harm by rejecting ideas because you shut yourself off from the infinite possibilites of the universe. I don't accept it either, so I'm not doing harm either way. I highly, highly, highly doubt that there is a FSM above my head, but I don't know shit. You must be a much smarter man than me to be able to know things with 100 percent certainty.


Congrats,

we live in a finite universe of finite possibility.

Sorry to ruin your delusion, it sounded fun.


Alright, you know much more than me. Forgive me if I don't take your word for it.


Alright, your brain is a tool of measurement capable of defining the limits of this universe.

And all of Physics, Chemistry, and radiological study are hogwash. Those giant array of dishes pointed at the sky? Those are for microwaving chickens on our secret moonbase.

I'll hang out on the side with tantalizing mounts of empirical data, tens thousands of experimental studies, and you can roll around in your a priori arguments which cannot be substantiated nor verified in any way all day; just tell your friends to stop prosthelytizing and we'll be peachy.

Oh, but if they did that, where would their followers come from? Then where would the money come from?

Better keep it bronze age!


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wat man rly

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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: Poid]
    #13946616 -

"LOL Christians are self-evidenced to be on the same intelligence level of George Bush, who they praised while in office. Unless you forgot about that part, or something."



Grow up kid, I know it's fun to be a college age know it all, but in a few years when you think back to how much of a douche you were to people that were just trying to have a fair debate you will regret it.

People like you claim to be so open minded, but here you are making mass generalizations about a group of people whom you've never met. If you were truly the intellectual you think you are you'd be smart enough to see this.

It's ok though, eventually someone will knock you of your high horse, have fun.

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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: Sticky Green]
    #13946639 -

Quote:
...And all of Physics, Chemistry, and radiological study are hogwash. Those giant array of dishes pointed at the sky? Those are for microwaving chickens on our secret moonbase


you were being sarcastic correct?


--------------------
want a cool color changing shroom gif that is easy on the eyes for YOUR shroomery background? 3 easy steps <-- click here

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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: Sticky Green] * 3
    #13946642 -

"You will regret being a douche bag over the internet"

Even if he was actually being a douche, I doubt he'll regret ruffling your feathers :lol:


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My cultivation guide.  How anyone can grow mushrooms. 

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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: Sticky Green]
    #13946645 -

Who are you replying to? :confused:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: bryguy27007]
    #13946647 -

bryguy27007 said:
Who defines what is worthless? It may not play a role in your life up to this point, but who knows what will happen tomorrow? Maybe the FSM that has been hovering over my head my whole life will descend and grant me eternal life. I don't know what's going to happen. I believe that you can do harm by rejecting ideas because you shut yourself off from the infinite possibilites of the universe. I don't accept it either, so I'm not doing harm either way. I highly, highly, highly doubt that there is a FSM above my head, but I don't know shit. You must be a much smarter man than me to be able to know things with 100 percent certainty.


Worthless, inconsequential, whatever, if it doesn't ever apply to your life than it had no meaning. I know for a 100% fact that tomorrow, neither a Flying Spaghetti Monster nor Jesus Christ are going to show up and grant me eternal life, b/c I live in reality with the laws of nature and these things don't happen.

If I shut myself off from the infinite possibilities of the universe by thinking this way, how does that harm me? If I'm truly shut off from them I won't have to deal with them. If they're more powerful and real than my filters they'd still be able to break through, to my great surprise and amusement.

I'm not smarter than you, I just round 99.99999999999999999999999999999999% to 100 and would rather change my mind when confronted with the .000000000000000000000000001 than give equal probability to it before it happens (or doesn't).


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A final message to my favorite online community

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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: uber_aj]
    #13946664 -

uber_aj said:
...I live in reality with the laws of nature and these things don't happen.

Which laws of nature state that it's impossible for those things to happen?


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: Moo456]
    #13946669 -

Moo456 said:
To you it is. Why does the history of an argument matter? That just makes more bias. Besides what if someone comes up with a new one just slightly different than an existing one? Instead of associating them, one could just listen and form a response.


No, actually this is dumb. It matters because while you think this is a unique debate, it's been done before. There are in fact modernizations of these arguments in attempts to make them more substantial, which are targeted individually for their merits. Those arguments are also known for the men who altered them significantly such as to require better objections to match.

Basically, you're getting into a topic you haven't studied at all and acting like you already know what you're talking about. I'm not going to summarize these things for you, only tell you to privately study them on your own. The motivation that gets me to spend a few days writing a long and thought out summary is a grade; the possibility of unnerving one more blind-faither is no gain for me as there are a million in line behind him waiting to have someone else do the study for them.

What do you expect me to do for you? Spend four hours summarizing 30+ pages for each of your dozen petty conceptual a priori arguments? I don't have the time, and your end of posing the questions is a lot easier than explaining the objections that match them; because the rhetoric involved becomes long and convoluted in each and every case.

In a debate you practice by defending both sides. My guess is you aren't even aware of your opposition's platform or willing to practice such blasphemy as conceptualizing those objections.


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wat man rly

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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: blujay]
    #13946691 -

blujay said:
There are in fact modernizations of these arguments in attempts to make them more substantial, which are targeted individually for their merits. Those arguments are also known for the men who altered them significantly such as to require better objections to match.

Most philosophical progression is done by several collaborating individuals; just because there are many philosophical positions that are credited to just one individual doesn't mean that all or most of them are.


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Proof God exists and why atheists can suck it [Re: blujay]
    #13946698 -

Alright whatever I guess I'm too dumb to make my own arguments. I should just leave it to someone else. :rolleyes:

Continue to get people to listen to you by being condescending. That's perfect.


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