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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13908911 -

AlphaFalfa said:
The irony is that mark didn't say that my view is fundamentalist, De_cypher did.


I didn't say that anyone's view was fundamentalist... :wtf:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13909576 -

AlphaFalfa said:
Thats obviously because you can't apply a simple definition to your own thinking and like to take the opinion of those who you think have social wieght here.

Why oh why did I say this?

Because this definition cannot be applied in any way to describe my position on 'god'. Why?


i misspoke about mark saying that, but they both basically said your definition of god is similar to a fundamentalist's definition in that it seems to be a response to the idea of god being a concrete presence. furthermore as for your personal definition of fundamentalism:

Quote:
I define fundamentalism as the lack of desire to hear opinions of others that are relevant to your position on any issue, in this case it would be god.


this doesn't line up with what seems to be the widely accepted definition of the term. i think the term you're looking for is dogmatic, not fundamentalist. i also gave my personal insight into how those two pieces of scripture may not contradict each other after all. indeed, very mindless of me.

i'm not trying to make friends, nor as i said am i trying to attack you or anyone. i was just agreeing with points that dissent from your own alpha. sorry about that.


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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: deCypher]
    #13911403 -

deCypher said:
He does have a point though, IMO, in that by declaring with emphatic certainty that "there is no God" of such and such characteristics you seem to be behaving with the same dogmatism of the Fundamentalists who you typically rail against.  :satansmoking:



Doesn't this imply that I am acting like a fundamentalist in regards to 'god'?

I can't see what else it would mean.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: millzy]
    #13911412 -

millzy said:
AlphaFalfa said:
Thats obviously because you can't apply a simple definition to your own thinking and like to take the opinion of those who you think have social wieght here.

Why oh why did I say this?

Because this definition cannot be applied in any way to describe my position on 'god'. Why?


i misspoke about mark saying that, but they both basically said your definition of god is similar to a fundamentalist's definition in that it seems to be a response to the idea of god being a concrete presence. furthermore as for your personal definition of fundamentalism:

Quote:
I define fundamentalism as the lack of desire to hear opinions of others that are relevant to your position on any issue, in this case it would be god.


this doesn't line up with what seems to be the widely accepted definition of the term. i think the term you're looking for is dogmatic, not fundamentalist. i also gave my personal insight into how those two pieces of scripture may not contradict each other after all. indeed, very mindless of me.

i'm not trying to make friends, nor as i said am i trying to attack you or anyone. i was just agreeing with points that dissent from your own alpha. sorry about that.



Yeah thats alrite, we all make mistakes.

And yeah for the most part we kind of started from a different POV about fundamentalism, so we couldn't possibly have a discussion about it to begin with.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13911478 -

AlphaFalfa said:
deCypher said:
He does have a point though, IMO, in that by declaring with emphatic certainty that "there is no God" of such and such characteristics you seem to be behaving with the same dogmatism of the Fundamentalists who you typically rail against.  :satansmoking:



Doesn't this imply that I am acting like a fundamentalist in regards to 'god'?

I can't see what else it would mean.


In the first place, I was talking to Markos; in the second I was saying that he seems to be behaving with a similar dogmatism to the fundamentalists--not saying that he IS a fundamentalist.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: deCypher]
    #13911531 -

10 4


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13913421 -

AlphaFalfa said:
And yeah for the most part we kind of started from a different POV about fundamentalism, so we couldn't possibly have a discussion about it to begin with.


that's not what i gathered, but okay. not sure why you seem to have such an attitude towards me.


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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: millzy]
    #13913644 -

Rule 1 of any forum: Don't claim that a person is resenting your unless expressively stated.

I did give attitude in the first post because it sounded ridiculous but now since it ended up being miscommunication, I have no more attitude.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13914910 -

Try the Via Negativa instead. It's psychologically more honest. Nobody can say definitively what God is. It's all just metaphor. Apophatic Theology leaves behind the Cataphatic Theology which positively expresses what God is. The Bible describes what God is from the Tenach to the NT. God is experienced mystically, but can never be expressed verbally as finite attributes. This is well known in India where the Personal God is transcended for the Transpersonal God (Saguna and Nirguna Brahman). The Buddhists took up only the latter aspect, and at best refers to it as the Void, or the Clear Light of the Void, which is to say nothing about Ultimate Reality, because It is no-thing. Attributes attempt to finitize the Infinite.    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #13915021 -

I didn't really get an answer in regards to holy texts, unless I missed it.

In terms of actually knowing god, I couldn't disagree more with Apothatic Theology.

Quick Definitions:

In negative theology, it is accepted that the Divine is ineffable, an abstract experience that can only be recognized or remembered—that is, human beings cannot describe in words the essence of the perfect good that is unique to the individual, nor can they define the Divine, in its immense complexity, related to the entire field of reality, and therefore all descriptions if attempted will be ultimately false and conceptualization should be avoided; in effect, it eludes definition by definition.

This is absurd unless those who believe this recognize that the only thing that can be said about god or the divine is strictily that it is ineffable because by negating a position( in this case, any position that is founded in a definition of god) you do in fact make a claim about god's characteristics.

For example, If I say that god is has no color; I am concluding at the same time that god IS not black, god IS not white, etc etc.

I cannot argue with anyone who says that god is ineffable, as they have already relegated god to mystery. This is a classic argument for christians, except they seem to draw some conclusion about god and keep anything that contradicts those conclusion relegated to mystery.

So again markos, what I was asking wasn't how can we know god but how do you discern myth from reality in a historical books like the bible?


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13915502 -

AlphaFalfa said:
I didn't really get an answer in regards to holy texts, unless I missed it.

In terms of actually knowing god, I couldn't disagree more with Apothatic Theology.

Quick Definitions:

In negative theology, it is accepted that the Divine is ineffable, an abstract experience that can only be recognized or remembered—that is, human beings cannot describe in words the essence of the perfect good that is unique to the individual, nor can they define the Divine, in its immense complexity, related to the entire field of reality, and therefore all descriptions if attempted will be ultimately false and conceptualization should be avoided; in effect, it eludes definition by definition.

This is absurd unless those who believe this recognize that the only thing that can be said about god or the divine is strictily that it is ineffable because by negating a position( in this case, any position that is founded in a definition of god) you do in fact make a claim about god's characteristics.

For example, If I say that god is has no color; I am concluding at the same time that god IS not black, god IS not white, etc etc.

I cannot argue with anyone who says that god is ineffable, as they have already relegated god to mystery. This is a classic argument for christians, except they seem to draw some conclusion about god and keep anything that contradicts those conclusion relegated to mystery.

So again markos, what I was asking wasn't how can we know god but how do you discern myth from reality in a historical books like the bible?


So again AlphaFalpha, perhaps a picture this time, since you've not registered my written answer:



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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