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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: An interesting ritual...?..... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #871643 -

whats a more possible scenario......a devine being such as the god we speak of creates man and then leaves no physical proof of its existance leaving us only to wonder whats really going on up there, or that man created god, as kind of an emotional back brace if you will, to help us try to understand why we are here, and give some meaning to our existance. and to give us something to look to for spirtiual guidance, something to pray to, so we dont feel so alone, and so that even after deatrh, which scares us all, we can continue on living......i believe that many of the worlds religions came to be by mans fear of the unknown.....it sounds alot better to say we all go to "heaven" when we die, than it is to say we just decay and rot, our bodies turning into worm food.....just a thought


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Re: An interesting ritual...?..... [Re: ]
    #872681 -

Seems to me more like the industrial paint sprayer they use on the Golden Gate Bridge and the like :smile:

I used to be a materialist.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: An interesting ritual...?..... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #872742 -

Oh well done!  I love it!  Yes, I like your analogy much better than mine.

I am not a materialist either.  Both Eastern Mysticism and materialism are extremes.  I think the truth lies in the middle. :wink:

Cheers, 

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Re: An interesting ritual...?..... [Re: ]
    #872820 -

On a heavier note, many people suffer loss of faith in the aftermath of the death of an innocent. The bitterness that ensues, sometimes referred to as the Ahab Complex, after Melville's character for whom the White Whale, who took Ahab's leg, is a symbol for God. The God in question - the Wrathful Demiurgic Deity of the Gnostics, is what Ahab spits his venom at ("...from Hell's heart I stab at thee whale!...") There is the God Beyond God in much of the world's religion, including Gnostic Christianity - a benevolent loving and compassionate Reality. Even Ahab was made to say this by Melville:
"Thou knowest not how came ye, hence callest thyself unbegotten: Certainly knowest not thy beginning, hence callest thyself unbegun. I know that of me, which thou knowest not of thyself, oh, thou omnipotent. There is some unsuffusing thing beyond thee to whom all thy eternity is but time, all thy creativeness mechanical."

The contempt for the 'Demiurge' whose omnipotence not only permits but seems to create evil, is followed by yet a recognition of "some unsuffusing thing," the God Beyond the Demiurge, Who is, as the Muslims say is "the Merciful, the Compassionate."

In Stephan Hoeller's new book, 'Gnosticism: New Light on the Ancient Tradition of Inner Knowing,' he notes the cover story of the June 10, 1991 Time Magazine, in which Lance Morrow the author posited three propositions:
- God is all-powerful
- God is all-good
- Terrible things happen
Morrow said that one could agree with any two of these propositions, but not all three. If what seems to us to be evil truly exists, the God presented by monotheistic religions cannot exist. Ram Dass once attempted to explain the death of a child as a necessary but very brief incarnation before returning to God. Naturally,those around the child become powerfully attached, and can only experience the existential predicament which is the loss of a child - always terrible from a natural perspective. However, when considered 'sub specie aeternitatis,' under the aspect of eternity, with regard to a child ceasing to be a child, but becoming its true Nature - Beatitude - we have no choice but to sacrifice our grief, loss, regret, attachment.

Our pain is not the fault of God when seen this way, and as humans, we have little choice but to see all our loss and impermanence this way. It is the struggle of Job - 'Even though He slays me, yet will I believe in Him,' and it requires the fortitude of Job to come to terms with loss, epitomized in the loss of a child. I feel for whomever has to deal with this. I feel for all of us, as we all lose everything and everyone in the end - but we can gain very God, here and now, and there is nothing else that can get us through this existence.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: An interesting ritual...?..... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #872840 -

Well that wasn't too bad to wade through. :wink:

Yes, well there is this idea found in philosophy and humanistic or secular thought that God is omnibenevolent.  That is not the Christian's God in the way that humanists or secularists define it.  I could write a lot about this but I am cross-eyed with fatigue.

Theodicy, and the answer is simple.  God cannot create a world with freewill occurs and yet prevent evil from happening.  C.S. Lewis said that pain is God's megaphone to rouse a deaf world.


Lots more but I'm sure you get the point.

Cheers for gnosis,

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Re: An interesting ritual...?..... [Re: ]
    #872912 -

Well, get some sleep...but thanks for the response. I have not heard the term "omnibenevolent" before. As to the wading...most people know that Ph.D. means 'Piled Higher & Deeper"  :smile:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: An interesting ritual...?..... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #873321 -

- God is all-powerful
- God is all-good
- Terrible things happen

Why can't all three be true. If nothing ever went wrong, and there was no pain, no suffering, then what would be the point of living. The fact is you would learn nothing. Wisdom is acquired through suffering.
You can only understand what good is if you know what evil is.
An appreciation of pleasure comes from having experienced suffering.

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Re: An interesting ritual...?..... [Re: jayson]
    #873323 -

god is not all good..... even he has the potential for destruction, weve seen it before, we will see it again

god is not all powerfull..... even he too has rules he must follow, if hes so powerfull, why doesnt he just make the world a better place, end all fammine, end all wars? its not his place to do so......thats our area, he gave us free will for a reason

terrible things do happen......An appreciation of pleasure comes from having experienced suffering----- i agree with you on that one :grin: 


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how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Re: An interesting ritual...?..... [Re: Swami]
    #873453 -

OK Swami...let's end this little family feud. You obviously hold very strong beliefs opposite to mine. This is great,it  makes for interesting debate but seriously though, let's stop correcting each other's grammar and spelling as this serves no purpose. Anyway, let's agree to disagree. I still fully expect intelligent debate from you in the future so don't shy away from my posts out of anger for Chemkid  :cool: Are you with me  ( as in can you comprehend me  LOL) Kidding! 


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An open mind is the greatest journey of all.

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Re: An interesting ritual...?..... [Re: jayson]
    #873512 -

A) Wisdom does not come from suffering. Wisdom, at least from a Buddhist perspective, is both the means to, and the cessation of suffering. Wisdom in both East and West transcends suffering, and evil. It allows Joy and Peace to shine, despite pain and suffering.

B) The duality of pleasure and pain exists on a continuum that Wisdom transcends. Wisdom does not belong on or to this continuum in any tradition I have ever heard of.

C) As an 'archetypal' example of Wisdom being experienced in the absence of great pain and suffering, is the disciple John (of the Book of Revelations), who was banished to the Isle of Patmos, whereon he experienced Divine Revelations in the form of visions. Unlike Peter, who was crucified upside down, and then burned alive; or Paul, who was beheaded in Rome (Roman citizens were executed swiftly, without the torture of crucifixion, flogging to death or burning); or some of the other core disciples who met similar ends, John was merely exiled, and yet the Johannine literature embodies the highest Wisdom in the New Testament.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: An interesting ritual...?..... [Re: Adamist]
    #873563 -

The mind controles the body...


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:dancing: My latest music! :yesnod:

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Re: An interesting ritual...?..... [Re: Swami]
    #874943 -

Dear Swami,

Everyone can by definition be equally special just as everyone by definition can be equally poor.

I made no refrence to the ritual of being from purist intentions, you should examine your opponents threat more accurately before taking military action, go sadaam,what the fuck is wrong with me?

your arguements are by my definition, worthless and illogical,but then again that is just my opinion.

peace>



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" liken this life illusory, for your sand castle will one day be adrift amongst the wind "



Edited by ViBrAnT (09/10/02 01:38 PM)

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Re: An interesting ritual...?..... [Re: ]
    #875276 -

I assure you that this is not a representative example of eastern mysticism.

after edit: I should make a point to read an entire thread through before posting! Er..what Markos said.


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Concepts which have been proved to be useful in ordering things easily acquire such an authority over us that we forget their human origins and accept them as invariable.- Albert Einstein

Edited by buttonion (09/10/02 04:19 PM)

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