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The most interesting verse in the Bible.
    #13865412 -

Romans

Context: Aposlte Paul, in his letter to the Romans concerning Jesus/God, expounding an inner monologue/question and answer period, where he posits what the objections the Romans would have for a benevolent and omniscient god that allows evil into the world.

Philosophical Implications: It seems as if it might represent the bibles way of dealing with the problem of evil.

Chapter:  9:(19-22)  New Testament

You will say to me(Romans to Paul)"Then why does he(god) find fault? Surely no one can resist his Will?" But who are you, anyone who talks back to god?....."Why did you then make me like this(evil)?" Or has the potter no right over his clay, to make equally from the same lump on piece of pottery to honor and the other to dishonor? And what if God, desiring to display his wrath and to make his power known endured with much patience objects objects of wrath ready for destruction?


How would you interpret this?

My own view is that this seems to say that God creates/allows evil so that he can show his power to others through expressing his wrath and destruction over them.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13865497 -

I believe that god is merely life. The essence of life(biology). I can't imagine a conscious spirit making decisions and throwing people in hell for all  of eternity because they didn't waste their life worshiping him and talking in tounges.
If the god of the bible is real, he is sure a real fuckhead.

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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: SmokedShroom]
    #13865567 -

this isnt a question on what you belief (no offence) its an interprataion question. 

i think the best verse in the bible is  •John 1:1. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." 
i mean think about it. this ties into physics and everything..

but back to your topic

I think he was talking about himself beign evil there not god.
and I also have the opinion that what people want and hope for isnt the same as gods concerns. So we may want certain things to go a certain way or not to go a certain way (very broad statement) but God would not be concerned with the affairs of man in this way. This is mans will and man has free will. so its people not god who do these things, because of desire and choice.
i also would like to add that god made all of creation. Everything, the things that we call good and things we label evil, but god made all those things. to get things done he needed a left arm and a right arm. and we may not understand or like that things that take place, but god isnt concerned with what we like or want "his will be done" i would love to discuss this further but i will ramble and type it out of sync. so there is my short opinion answer.


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: SmokedShroom]
    #13865576 -

I wasn't really making a case for or against god. I assume that its pretty much a given that he doesn't exist/along with hell or heaven.

I don't agree with your theory of god as biology. I don't see what the difference is. Why call biological processes/matter, god, why not call it nature? What makes you throw god into it?


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13865632 -

My own view is that this seems to say that God creates/allows evil so that he can show his power to others through expressing his wrath and destruction over them.

We've covered this already.

If god is omnipotent, he can "show his power to others through expressing his wrath and destruction over them" without actually creating evil and inflicting the consequential suffering on his children that he supposedly loves.

That he went ahead and created evil and inflicted it on us even though that wasn't necessary renders him an unloving, sadistic asshole (or not omnipotent, so why worship him?) :shrug:

This is like infecting your kids with rabies, then inflicting the numerous painful injections required to cure on them.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13865656 -

AlphaFalfa said:
My own view is that this seems to say that God creates/allows evil so that he can show his power to others through expressing his wrath and destruction over them.


Everything is temporary. "Good" isn't pardoned by God- it's no different than evil. Free will allows separation from God, and what is not God cannot be sustained.


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: whileEcubes]
    #13865665 -

I can't see how this has to do with free will. There is no mention of human will in the passage. What it does mention clearly is that god allows evil, not to help us, but to show us his power.

If you want to debate about the existence of god this passage surely seems to contradict his benevolence and any love he may have for us because the evil he allows affects one person disproportionately. This happens because evil affects people, not objects, take evils such as starvation.

In day alone, 20 000 children die due to malnutrition. If he allows this evil to exist, thereby allowing over 240 000 children die due to malnutrition, as is said by this verse, then clearly god either does not LOVE all equally or he simply does not exist. I would posit that he does not exist, at least not with an attitude of benevolence in our world. 

Feelings are deceiving, look at all those people who are heartbroken now and who clearly imagined that they found their true love.....surely feelings are a limited way of understanding god and its existence/in existence.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: Diploid]
    #13865684 -

Diploid said:
My own view is that this seems to say that God creates/allows evil so that he can show his power to others through expressing his wrath and destruction over them.

We've covered this already.

If god is omnipotent, he can "show his power to others through expressing his wrath and destruction over them" without actually creating evil and inflicting the consequential suffering on his children that he supposedly loves.

That he went ahead and created evil and inflicted it on us even though that wasn't necessary renders him an unloving, sadistic asshole (or not omnipotent, so why worship him?) :shrug:

This is like infecting your kids with rabies, then inflicting the numerous painful injections required to cure on them.




in my rambling this is something like what i said. i need to learn better communication skills :p


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: whileEcubes]
    #13865728 -

well i was trying to convey (not debat mind you) that whatever created the univers (GOD) does not care about what we (man) care about.
Evil is a term taht is applied to things that a society or culture considar evil. And even starvation is an effect at a deeper level to free will.
The people starving are starving because they live in an area with no food, they live there by a choice, if not theres then there parents or there parents or whatever. and because no one chose to bring them food. so i guess im evil because today i went to school so i can get a diploma and feed my family instead of making a journey to where ever and feeding someone else.

evil as you use it does not exist it is a term applied to unfavorable conditions.
and God as you use the term does not exist either so your right in your beliefe. But i however believe in god i just know how to sepperate my ego and others ego from the concept of god before i shoose to answere to myself the question.

and as for the bible google cooberative evidence.

but before anyone gets mad at me, I may believe in a god  but i live by science and that is the only reason i believe in god, i realized some things just recently that changed me from agnostic. But hey i no that reality is just preception so there is no point in tryin to argue and i dont "know" anything so im not against your beliefs

i was trying to discus not debate

and john is more interesting to me.  why did you choose this again? are you tryin to say its contradictory  poeple have been doing that for 1500 years and they still never one the argument its better to "just think about something else":rolleyes:


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13865739 -

You will say to me(Romans to Paul)"Then why does he(god) find fault? Surely no one can resist his Will?" But who are you, anyone who talks back to god?....."Why did you then make me like this(evil)?" Or has the potter no right over his clay, to make equally from the same lump on piece of pottery to honor and the other to dishonor? And what if God, desiring to display his wrath and to make his power known endured with much patience objects objects of wrath ready for destruction?
 

yes it does this is pauls words not gods words
Why did you then make me like this(evil)?"
so the people who he is talking have freee will and choose to do whatever they did to make him say this,


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: Diploid]
    #13865750 -

Diploid said:
My own view is that this seems to say that God creates/allows evil so that he can show his power to others through expressing his wrath and destruction over them.

We've covered this already.

If god is omnipotent, he can "show his power to others through expressing his wrath and destruction over them" without actually creating evil and inflicting the consequential suffering on his children that he supposedly loves.

That he went ahead and created evil and inflicted it on us even though that wasn't necessary renders him an unloving, sadistic asshole (or not omnipotent, so why worship him?) :shrug:

This is like infecting your kids with rabies, then inflicting the numerous painful injections required to cure on them.



Well, I never gave my POV on GOD, I was merely depositing this on the forum to see how other interpret it for my own purposes.

:shrug:


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13865843 -

Unfortunately, this is where Paul's Hellenistic roots come across in a way that does not mix well with the Jewish roots of Christianity.  The idea of omnipotence - the concept that God has absolute power and can do anything he wants - simply cannot be reconciled with the God of love we find in Jesus' teachings, if we are to take seriously the problem of evil.


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: whileEcubes]
    #13865859 -

whileEcubes said:
You will say to me(Romans to Paul)"Then why does he(god) find fault? Surely no one can resist his Will?" But who are you, anyone who talks back to god?....."Why did you then make me like this(evil)?" Or has the potter no right over his clay, to make equally from the same lump on piece of pottery to honor and the other to dishonor? And what if God, desiring to display his wrath and to make his power known endured with much patience objects objects of wrath ready for destruction?
 

yes it does this is pauls words not gods words
Why did you then make me like this(evil)?"
so the people who he is talking have freee will and choose to do whatever they did to make him say this,



Thats not really what it says; I just interpret it that way by putting (evil) The most important part is the last line. I interpret that a complaint to god would be about something to do with evil and not good, because why complain about good and somehow use it as an objection to gods benevolence....it makes more sense to interpret it as a question that refers to evil.

Either way what do you make of the last line?

Code:
[quote]And what if God, desiring to display his wrath and to make his power known endured with much patience objects objects of wrath ready for destruction?[/quote]


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13865911 -

oh ok my mistake.. hold on let me think about it and i will interpret my finacial aid office is giving me problembs otm brb


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: SmokedShroom]
    #13865939 -

SmokedShroom said:
I believe that god is merely life. The essence of life(biology)..


I believe blixy is the sum of all beers.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13865972 -

w
AlphaFalfa said:
Romans

Context: Aposlte Paul, in his letter to the Romans concerning Jesus/God, expounding an inner monologue/question and answer period, where he posits what the objections the Romans would have for a benevolent and omniscient god that allows evil into the world.

Philosophical Implications: It seems as if it might represent the bibles way of dealing with the problem of evil.

Chapter:  9:(19-22)  New Testament

You will say to me(Romans to Paul)"Then why does he(god) find fault? Surely no one can resist his Will?" But who are you, anyone who talks back to god?....."Why did you then make me like this(evil)?" Or has the potter no right over his clay, to make equally from the same lump on piece of pottery to honor and the other to dishonor? And what if God, desiring to display his wrath and to make his power known endured with much patience objects objects of wrath ready for destruction?


How would you interpret this?

My own view is that this seems to say that God creates/allows evil so that he can show his power to others through expressing his wrath and destruction over them.


well my intepretation of the reading (not my beliefe or opinion0 is that he is saying that if a potter makes pottery he has rights over his pottery, and so since god made man that he could wait in patience while things are happening and not interfere to show his wrath (wich implies vengence against something for some reason)

that is what i read it to say as impartial as i can be.


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13866151 -

Not sure what you mean.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13866341 -

He did it for the lulz.


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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13867431 -

It sounds like Paul didn't quite get it.  That's ok, most of us don't. 

There's something to be learned from a limited man's attempts to teach.

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Re: The most interesting verse in the Bible. [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #13867579 -

Such as?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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