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OfflineRadar
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Re: Hold on, why the fuck do societal taboos exist? [Re: Radar]
    #12211821 - 03/16/10 10:21 AM (14 years, 16 days ago)

I think the topic of your post should have been "I think taboos are stupid"  rather than "Hold on, why the fuck do societal taboos exist?"  Because there are plenty of reasons WHY they exist (I've given you several answers - that you don't like) .

SHOULD they exist is a whole other point. THAT'S a value judgment. Some taboo's I like.  The whole "don't touch people on the head" in parts of Southeast Asia makes a whole lot of sense to me - I HATE people touching me. Child pornography grosses me out and brings up the whole free will debate. Others are silly in this day and age  - ie worrying about gay marriage.

Do they work to make a "better" society would be a third question. That would cover what "better" means. What constitutes a happy society. What is an individuals role. Are we just cogs in a cosmic machine or does this all really revolve around each individual.


--------------------
We have not even to risk the adventure alone, for the heroes of all time have gone before us — the labyrinth is thoroughly known. We have only to follow the thread of the hero path, and where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god; where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves; where we had thought to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our own existence. And where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Hold on, why the fuck do societal taboos exist? [Re: Radar]
    #12211874 - 03/16/10 10:37 AM (14 years, 16 days ago)

Looking at the group as a whole is the way science works?


What the fuck are you talking about? What does science's MO have to do with anything? Why does it mean that I "gotta look at the group as a whole", especially when my personal desires override the group's?



I think the topic of your post should have been "I think taboos are stupid"  rather than "Hold on, why the fuck do societal taboos exist?"  Because there are plenty of reasons WHY they exist (I've given you several answers - that you don't like) .

It's being said in the same tone. :smirk:



SHOULD they exist is a whole other point. THAT'S a value judgment. Some taboo's I like.  The whole "don't touch people on the head" in parts of Southeast Asia makes a whole lot of sense to me - I HATE people touching me.

If you hate people touching you, then stay away from people who touch you.



Child pornography grosses me out and brings up the whole free will debate. Others are silly in this day and age  - ie worrying about gay marriage.

A lot of taboos exist to prevent people from being grossed out by others--this is fucking retarded, because all one has to do is avoid being in the presence of that which they don't like.

Taboos imply that there is a such thing as universal preferences.



Do they work to make a "better" society would be a third question. That would cover what "better" means. What constitutes a happy society. What is an individuals role. Are we just cogs in a cosmic machine or does this all really revolve around each individual.

They obviously make people prone to psychological discomfort.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (03/16/10 10:42 AM)

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OfflineRadar
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Re: Hold on, why the fuck do societal taboos exist? [Re: Poid]
    #12211979 - 03/16/10 11:02 AM (14 years, 16 days ago)

Yeah  - that IS the  way science works.  You try and get the largest sample set possible.  Right? 



They do cause psychological discomfort BUT they also cause a lot of psycholigical security.  There are plenty of little old ladies who are made quite comfortable with the thought that those horrble gays arent destroying the sanctity of marriage.

Hah, and I do stay away from people who touch me.

And again - I thought we were discussing the role taboos play in societies and why they exist, not your personal desires.  On that front I'm with Crowley (and from the sounds of it, you) . Plus I hate rules so much I can barely play any sort of organized sports.


--------------------
We have not even to risk the adventure alone, for the heroes of all time have gone before us — the labyrinth is thoroughly known. We have only to follow the thread of the hero path, and where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god; where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves; where we had thought to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our own existence. And where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Hold on, why the fuck do societal taboos exist? [Re: Radar]
    #12212030 - 03/16/10 11:15 AM (14 years, 16 days ago)

Yeah  - that IS the  way science works.  You try and get the largest sample set possible.  Right?

Depends on what the aim of the investigation is--but science works via the implementation of the scientific method, and this doesn't always include getting the largest sample set possible.

Either way, I fail to see how this means that I gotta do anything at all, let alone look at the group as a whole.


What is accomplished by doing that?



They do cause psychological discomfort BUT they also cause a lot of psycholigical security.  There are plenty of little old ladies who are made quite comfortable with the though that those horrble gays arent destroying the sanctity of marriage.

Their proneness to discomfort remains, however.

It's almost like you're saying that's a good thing for them. :lol:



Hah, and I do stay away from people who touch me.

Good for you, just don't expect touchy people to give a shit about how you think they should behave. 



And again - I thought we were discussing the role taboos play in societies and why they exist, not your personal desires.

I still think we have yet to reach the very core of the issue. :satansmoking:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineRadar
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Re: Hold on, why the fuck do societal taboos exist? [Re: Poid]
    #12212053 - 03/16/10 11:22 AM (14 years, 16 days ago)

Lets hear your answer on why taboos exist?


--------------------
We have not even to risk the adventure alone, for the heroes of all time have gone before us — the labyrinth is thoroughly known. We have only to follow the thread of the hero path, and where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god; where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves; where we had thought to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our own existence. And where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Hold on, why the fuck do societal taboos exist? [Re: Radar]
    #12212097 - 03/16/10 11:33 AM (14 years, 16 days ago)

Selfishness, self-importance, greed, and fear are mostly to blame.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineRadar
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Re: Hold on, why the fuck do societal taboos exist? [Re: Poid]
    #12212112 - 03/16/10 11:37 AM (14 years, 16 days ago)

if only there were a path....or 8


--------------------
We have not even to risk the adventure alone, for the heroes of all time have gone before us — the labyrinth is thoroughly known. We have only to follow the thread of the hero path, and where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god; where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves; where we had thought to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our own existence. And where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Hold on, why the fuck do societal taboos exist? [Re: Radar]
    #12212129 - 03/16/10 11:42 AM (14 years, 16 days ago)

All there is are different ways to cope with the way things are--the damage was hardwired into our minds long before we ever had a say in anything, and the process of fixing the damage could be unbearingly overwhelming. :evil:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineRadar
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Posts: 767
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Re: Hold on, why the fuck do societal taboos exist? [Re: Poid]
    #12212512 - 03/16/10 12:48 PM (14 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
All there is are different ways to cope with the way things are--the damage was hardwired into our minds long before we ever had a say in anything, and the process of fixing the damage could be unbearingly overwhelming. :evil:






QFT.... I have some Ayahuasca ceremonies coming up to try and break up just that very damage.


--------------------
We have not even to risk the adventure alone, for the heroes of all time have gone before us — the labyrinth is thoroughly known. We have only to follow the thread of the hero path, and where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god; where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves; where we had thought to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our own existence. And where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Hold on, why the fuck do societal taboos exist? [Re: Radar]
    #12212534 - 03/16/10 12:52 PM (14 years, 15 days ago)

Careful with that--you may address your issues head-on, but it could be at the cost of being able to function well, and that state could last a while.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinedill705
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Re: Hold on, why the fuck do societal taboos exist? [Re: Radar]
    #12217121 - 03/17/10 05:15 AM (14 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Radar said:
if only there were a path....or 8




:ilold:

Gotta love when the eight fold path is the perfect thing to bring up. He practically listed them.

That list includes more traits obviously, but you can see just in the ones you listed how those feelings can become ambivalent. In Freud's thought, it was this ambivalence that led to the acceptance and, I agree, eventually the hardwiring of our brains for simple social taboos that also manage to get embedded in our languages and in our moralities, continuously living on through the passage of genetics and culture on and on through the ages.

While they are pretty stupid (I bet smart "individual" type humans always doubted the utility of taboos), it's easy to understand how they arose and why they stayed. It's somewhat harder to argue that they should all just be thrown out, because many still seem to have justification.

Poid, social taboos are just another facet of the human condition that, even though you may try, you can't change. You may as well just accept it and move on. I almost got burned on a sex offense when I was a Senior for hooking up with a Freshmen girl who was only 3 years younger than me. I did jail time, but I beat the charge. I definitely care about social taboos, especially the one that almost nailed me to wall. But I doubt anyone is going to change their mind talking about fucking their cousin :shrug: Some peeps will, others won't. Either way, it's a social taboo.

/thread


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Hold on, why the fuck do societal taboos exist? [Re: dill705]
    #12217135 - 03/17/10 05:33 AM (14 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

dill705 said:
While they are pretty stupid (I bet smart "individual" type humans always doubted the utility of taboos), it's easy to understand how they arose and why they stayed. It's somewhat harder to argue that they should all just be thrown out, because many still seem to have justification.


Such as?

Are you saying that they merely seem to have justification, and in reality don't?



Quote:

dill705 said:
Poid, social taboos are just another facet of the human condition that, even though you may try, you can't change. You may as well just accept it and move on.


I accept it, I just don't want anything to to with them--whose social taboos should I pay heed to? The fact that they're not universal, and are arbitrary tells me that I should not pay any heed to any of them.

How other people see the world has no application to my life whatsoever, particularly when I am at odds with how they see things.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (04/14/12 03:48 AM)

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Offlinedill705
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Re: Hold on, why the fuck do societal taboos exist? [Re: Poid]
    #12217192 - 03/17/10 06:30 AM (14 years, 15 days ago)

First, yes that's exactly what I meant.

Lastly, I definitely don't think you should give a damn about following any tradition, taboo, or cliche.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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