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"Real" shamans
    #11854095 -

I'm interested in this girl who told me the other night that she has started to see a Shaman.  Now the only context that I've ever really known about Shamanism is in the psychedelic drug context.  I asked her if they do mescaline or something and she said that "real shamans don't use drugs". 

What's your opinion of that statement. 











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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: Learyfan]
    #11854129 -

I wouldn't say "real" Shamans don't use drugs, for some do. However, the majority use non-psychoactive means such as rhythmic drumming, rattling or dancing to enter the necessary altered-state of consciousness to facilitate shamanic work.

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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #11854242 -

I always thought it was drugs that made you a shaman :shrug:

but without a doubt real shamans use drugs...are ayahuasca taking shamans in south america not "real"?


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check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: g00ru]
    #11854273 -

c0sm0nautt said:
I wouldn't say "real" Shamans don't use drugs, for some do. However, the majority use non-psychoactive means such as rhythmic drumming, rattling or dancing to enter the necessary altered-state of consciousness to facilitate shamanic work.


Right on.  I didn't know that the majority used non-psychoactive means. 







guruu said:
are ayahuasca taking shamans in south america not "real"?


That's what I'm saying.  I guess she's just as ignorant to psychedelic shamanism as I am to non-psychedelic shamanism.  But it just kinda sounded elitist to me when she said that. 













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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: Learyfan]
    #11854368 -

I'm sure that different cultures embody different types of shamans. Some use drugs, others not. So depending on what cultures shaman you're referring to, you could be correct or incorrect in that statement. The term shaman itself is very unspecific, though, and I fear often used to boost ones ego with fanciful imaginings of magic and mystery than to describe the very real cultural role of spiritual healer.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: Kickle]
    #11854389 -

Yep, Jim 'Pathfinder' Ewing said something along the lines of "Only those who you heal can tell you if you are truly a Shaman."

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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: Learyfan]
    #11854397 -

shamans think psychoactive mushrooms are not drugs... drugs are man made creatiions while marijuana, fungus, are natural drugs, when you process cocaine and other plants or organisms for  a certain molecules of desire is when it beco0mes a drug....you extraxt hash oil from marijuana, u collect the thc  all the active ingridient in such a smaller portion, making your compound more pure, this is when it becomes a drug, the active ingridient was harvested and processeced. however it is still natural but it must be used correctly in apropriate dosses. when you have man made drugs that are chemically formed such as mdma and lsd 25 thats a real drug those are the kind of drugs that fuck up peoples bodies. when an active ingridient becomes abused, it is a drug. natural  is the way to go.


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"every man who came forth from the dust shall return to the dust as the dust will always be dust and nothing more"

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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: Mad Scientist]
    #11854416 -

these metaphysical questions have no answer. the answer is from the veiwpoint of the observer/questioner


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"In a revolving universe those who stand still move backward"- I forget

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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #11854423 -

c0sm0nautt said:
Yep, Jim 'Pathfinder' Ewing said something along the lines of "Only those who you heal can tell you if you are truly a Shaman."


i like


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"In a revolving universe those who stand still move backward"- I forget

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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: lifeinallday]
    #11854428 -

lifeinallday said:
these metaphysical questions have no answer. the answer is from the veiwpoint of the observer/questioner


Are you saying I'm not a REAL shaman!!!? :lol: :laugh:

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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #11854440 -

no, thats what youur askin ;D


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"In a revolving universe those who stand still move backward"- I forget

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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: Kickle]
    #11854447 -

Kickle said:
I'm sure that different cultures embody different types of shamans. Some use drugs, others not. So depending on what cultures shaman you're referring to, you could be correct or incorrect in that statement. The term shaman itself is very unspecific, though, and I fear often used to boost ones ego with fanciful imaginings of magic and mystery than to describe the very real cultural role of spiritual healer.


this was the one i meant to say "i like"


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"In a revolving universe those who stand still move backward"- I forget

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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: lifeinallday]
    #11854455 -

lifeinallday said:
no, thats what youur askin ;D


Was a joke. :tongue:

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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #11854482 -

c0sm0nautt said:
lifeinallday said:
no, thats what youur askin ;D


Was a joke. :tongue:


??????
yea, iwas just messing around, no disrespect


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"In a revolving universe those who stand still move backward"- I forget

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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: lifeinallday]
    #11854525 -

Ok! Damn internet :picard: hehe

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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: Learyfan]
    #11854630 -

I suppose that a shaman who doesn't need to use drugs to achieve certain effects would be superior to a shaman who needs to use drugs to achieve them.

Mad Scientist said:
shamans think psychoactive mushrooms are not drugs... drugs are man made creatiions while marijuana, fungus, are natural drugs, when you process cocaine and other plants or organisms for  a certain molecules of desire is when it beco0mes a drug....you extraxt hash oil from marijuana, u collect the thc  all the active ingridient in such a smaller portion, making your compound more pure, this is when it becomes a drug, the active ingridient was harvested and processeced. however it is still natural but it must be used correctly in apropriate dosses. when you have man made drugs that are chemically formed such as mdma and lsd 25 thats a real drug those are the kind of drugs that fuck up peoples bodies. when an active ingridient becomes abused, it is a drug. natural  is the way to go.


No.  Natural vs. synthetic is a useless distinction when it comes to toxicity.  Datura and other poisonous nightshades that can easily kill you are found in Nature, and various synthetic psychoactives that humans have created are safer than any herb or plant.  From a philosophical standpoint, moreover, everything including man-made things is natural since it all ultimately stems from the same source.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: deCypher]
    #11854683 -

Yeah plus lsd is harmless to your body.


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check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: deCypher]
    #11854714 -

shaman is derived (depending on the source and how far back you push it) from either sanskrit or one of the various native tongues in the Kamchatka area of Siberia...and both of those cultures used drugs as a means to leave the simply mundane and enter the sacred worlds.

thus if one looks to the cultures that used the term as native speakers, psychedelic shamans are the rule.


the confusion seems to come from westerners using shaman for all non-white, non-judeo/christian/muslim spiritual healers....one might as well call them witch doctors - it wouldn't be any more inaccurate or divorced from the context the word originated in. perhaps a more accurate generic, cross-cultural term would be "spirit healers".

i think your friend suffers from a lack of understanding of what a shaman is - which isn't her fault, it's endemic in our culture.


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if you can't beat them, arrange to have it done.

george carlin...RIP:heart:

laotzo

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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: laotzo]
    #11854759 -

Here's a counter-argument to consider:

Shaman in our language is what you've described. It is a catch-all term for spiritual healer.
That doesn't make it incorrect, it just means that our usage of the word is not in alignment with its origins. That's true for many words, though.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: "Real" shamans [Re: Kickle]
    #11855553 -

oh no i agree  ;/


just like that inigo montoya thing...


"i do not think that that word means what you think it means...."


the difference between what the original meaning was and what it is used to mean now is where i think the OP and the girl he refers to in his post have the disconnect.


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if you can't beat them, arrange to have it done.

george carlin...RIP:heart:

laotzo

Edited by laotzo (01/18/10 09:44 PM)

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