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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Christ like abilitys?
    #1073904 -

In reply to:
Full consciousness is a wondrous state in which the realms of the physical and the spiritual are fully merged. You possess psychic talents such as telepathy (thought communicating), telekinesis (ability to move objects through thought), and clairvoyance (ability to see into the future).




Telekinesis, hmm wow, i thought that was make believe. hey you guys do you have any facts about telekinesis and humans, is this possible?


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And the gameshow host rings the buzzer (brrnnntt) oh and now you get a face full of face!

Edited by johnnyfive (11/21/02 01:31 PM)

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1074178 -

telekenesis, err, no.

telekenesis, laser eye rays, and clayvoranceclgr really have nothing to do with tracking animals or moving long distances.

we don have evolutionary need for telekenesis, an anway that shit would take a long time to evolve a guess

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: what was that]
    #1075925 -

Ive seen telekinesis happening.


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Always Smi2le

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: GazzBut]
    #1075937 -

Uh huh. So many here have seen it, but no one can do it; at least not in front of ole Swamster because of my powerful "blocking rays".


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: Swami]
    #1075981 -

Sorry Swami but to be honest convincing you of anything is not very high on my agenda! I dont expect anyone to believe me but I know what i saw. Do you seriously believe no telekinesis has ever happened? I'd probabaly doubt it too though if i'd never seen it.


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Always Smi2le

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: johnnyfive]
    #1076513 -

Micheal Bentine has written a lot of interesting stuff on the paranormal. I'm far more inclined to believe him than ole swami.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: GazzBut]
    #1076607 -

Sorry Swami but to be honest convincing you of anything is not very high on my agenda.

That is standard believer response #9 for why nothing paranormal can ever be demonstrated. Try to come up with a new one.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: Swami]
    #1076795 -

I think strong empathy would be the steps leading to full-blown telepathy.

As for telekenesis- I highly doubt that this is possable by any human being.


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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


Edited by Murex (11/22/02 12:14 PM)

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: Swami]
    #1076842 -

I know this sounds lame but I always thought it was pretty cool. A long time ago my mom left her coffee pot on the stove too long, and it over heated and cracked. She got a new one. She left it on again. I was sitting relativley close, but I dind't want to get up to turn it off. I was reading a book and I figured I'd tell her when I was done reading the page i was on. The whole time I was thinkg "Mom you have to turn off the stove" or something along those lines. Before I reached the end of the page my mom comes by and thanks me for telling her to turn off the stove. I didn't say a word, but my mom insists that she clearly heard me tell her. Wierd huh?


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Think for yourself; Question Authority

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: GazzBut]
    #1077041 -

Are you sure it wasn't faked? Are you sure you're not experiencing some good ol' self deception?

Have there ever been any well designed scientific studies demonstrating telekinesis to be real?


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: Phluck]
    #1082095 -

In reply to:
Have there ever been any well designed scientific studies demonstrating telekinesis to be real?


well there's my other post about that. For whatever reason, I honestly don't remember why, it's not called telekinesis anymore, it's called psychokinesis (PK). There's macro-PK and then there's micro-PK. Macro-PK is bending spoons, levitating, that sort of thing. Plenty of rigorously scientific studies in half a dozen countries show that macro-PK happens. Micro-PK is more personally interesting because it involves affecting small things, like subatomic processes or computer parts. My aforementioned post is all about the micro-PK because it's had much better documentation than macro-PK. There is enough information to suggest the existence of PK beyond any reasonable doubt. The problem is that mainstream science knows that PK can't happen so they don't bother reading the studies that prove it does. We can all affect external situations with our minds alone.
-m


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(the above was deciphered from phi (~1.62) using an advanced alphanumeric conversion algorhythm and should not be perceived as meaningful.)

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: machineelf368]
    #1082146 -

> Plenty of rigorously scientific studies in half a dozen countries show
> that macro-PK happens.
Well? Links? Citations? I want to read about these studies. If there are 'plenty', just pick a couple.

> Micro-PK is more personally interesting because it involves affecting
> small things, like subatomic processes or computer parts.

It interests me too. I have some ideas about "randomness" and consciousness. Won't get into it because they're not very coherent ideas, but, there may be something going on.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/rpkp/experiments/

It's hard to properly control experiments like this when you have a large number of trials and are looking for such a small effect.

For example- in this one, you may try as many times as you want, so any anomalous performance could be explained by people tending to "quit while they are ahead."



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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: machineelf368]
    #1082171 -

"The problem is that mainstream science knows that PK can't happen so they don't bother reading the studies that prove it does."

I think that's bullshit. They are reading the studies, hell, the studies you wrote about were even published in mainstream science journals. I would still like to see a greater number of studies, especially by a wider variety of scientists.

Notice that I used the words "well designed" scientific studies. You'd be surprised at what percentage of science that's being done right now, even mainstream science, is being done badly. Everything from bad controls, to faked results. This is the kind of field where the results are sketchy, and easy to screw up, I'm open to the idea that psychokinesis could be real, but when a large number of psychologists are skeptical, I'm certainly not going to jump in and believe it. These people have lots of training in the field, you and I do not.

The results you've shown me definately point in the direction that it could be real, but they've mostly been done by the same guy. Like I've said many times before, belief has no place in science, even when there is evidence to back it up.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: Phluck]
    #1082184 -

The Skeptic's Dictionary, as usual, has a very well worded entry on the subject of parapsychology.

http://www.skepdic.com/parapsy.html

The key thing to note when looking at this, is that while you may be able to come up with a few studies showing that psychokinesis seems to be real, there are even more that would point the other way.



--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: GazzBut]
    #1082484 -

Howabout convincing ME then?

Who did you see do it and why aren't they famous?

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
telekenesis is BULLSHIT.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: machineelf368]
    #1082614 -

Plenty of rigorously scientific studies in half a dozen countries show that macro-PK happens.

Is this testing so rigorous that we cannot read about one instance in a major scientific journal?

So rigorous that it cannot be publicly demonstrated?

So rigorous that any stage magician can duplicate (spoon bending)?

So rigorous that the Randi $1,000,000 not only remains unclaimed, but is rarely even challenged?

I live in Las Vegas, the city that could be destroyed by PK, but instead builds a new lavish hotel every six months on the back of those with "luck, "intuition", "hunches" and "dice control".


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: machineelf368]
    #1082631 -

The problem is that mainstream science knows that PK can't happen ...

This is such a flawed statement that I am incredulous that you even make it. The scientific community is a microcosm of society-at-large. It is made up of every religion, sex, race, age, and mindset. There are both believers and skeptics. There is no world-wide collusion; no annual brain-washing convention of 100,000,000 people; no non-disclosure forms to sign. No, anyone with thick glasses and a white lab coat can join the conspiracy.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: Swami]
    #1082692 -

Dude, telekinesis IS possible.  I saw David Copperfield do it!  Honest!!!  :wink: 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: Swami]
    #1083088 -

So what you are saying is that scientific dogma doesn't exist.

Hmm funny, I could have swore I knew differently.

Most "believers" in scientism assume that the scientific answer must be the correct one. Why? Because science says so, that's why.

Circular proofs are hardly convincing to anyone who can reason.

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Re: Christ like abilitys? [Re: Swami]
    #1083121 -

The scientific community is a microcosm of those rich enough to go through 8-10 of school. That cuts out a lot of people.

There was an article in Science in 1955. Unfortunately I don't have it in front of me, but I do have this review of it:

The attitude of many scientists was summed up in 1955 in an article in Science, one of the nation's most prestigious scientific journals. Under the title "Science and the Supernatural," a chemist, George Price, wrote a review article the essence of which was: no intelligent man can read the evidence for the existence of extrasensory perception and doubt that it exists, but, since we know it is impossible, we must conclude that all this evidence is due to error and fraud. (Tart, 1983, p. 119)

Phluck, I agree wholeheartedly that "I would still like to see a greater number of studies, especially by a wider variety of scientists." There have been maybe 70 researchers in PK in the United States. One of the biggest problems with parapsychological research is that there's very little funding because few people with money will entertain the idea it exists until more studies by more people have been carried out, which requires more funding.

In reply to:
The key thing to note when looking at this, is that while you may be able to come up with a few studies showing that psychokinesis seems to be real, there are even more that would point the other way.


Meta-analysis helps keep this in perspective, I think. In a 1989 issue of Foundations of Psysics two PEAR researchers did a meta-analysis of 152 reports describing 597 experimental studies and 235 control studies on micro-PK from 68 different investigators. (Like I said in my other article, I reported studies almost entirely by H. Shmidt because he was one of the first, not the only, researcher in the area.) This meta-analysis showed that the odds the effects were due to chance at one-in-10^35 (that's 10 to the 35th power). 54,000 unsuccessful studies would be needed to reduce that number to nonsignificance. This is about 90 times the number of known studies. (Radin & Nelson, 1989)

As the Skeptic's Dictionary points out very well. correlation does not imply causation. All the psi-studies in the world won't prove psi, but they can at least show a strong possibility for psi. One-in-10^35 says to me that this area is at least worthy of mainstream attention and proper funding. That's all I ask for.
-m

References:
Radin, D. I., & Nelson, R. D. (1989). Consciousness-related effects in random physical systems. Foundations of Physics, 19, 1499-1514.
Tart, C. (1983). Transpersonal psychologies. El Cerrito, CA: Psychological Processes, Inc.


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(the above was deciphered from phi (~1.62) using an advanced alphanumeric conversion algorhythm and should not be perceived as meaningful.)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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