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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: Existence]
    #10675960 -

Actually Orgoneconclusion seems to be the one using faulty logic in this thread as usual. I should have know your little insult to me was a reflection of your inability to accept your own failure and to try and project it onto your adversary.

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: Existence]
    #10675961 -

Quote:
I am not devoting my full attention to this.


As has been abundantly clear by the large number of errors in your rebuttals.

Quote:
I will drop out


Thanks for playing. :bye:


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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10675998 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
I am not devoting my full attention to this.


As has been abundantly clear by the large number of errors in your rebuttals.

Quote:
I will drop out


Thanks for playing. :bye:


So what is your excuse for the large number of errors in your logic?

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10676012 -

It looks to me like we're actually all in full agreement.

What do we agree on?

A - we hate each other (nothing new there)
B - plants could use a significantly greater amount of the sunshine they are exposed to, but nobody can figure out if this would provide them any tangible benefit in the context of an actual ecosystem


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Weedmaster P knows the truth.

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10676050 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
In my research on plants, I was surprised to learn that photosynthesis only utilizes 0.1% of the light energy that reaches the leaves.

Compare this to about 23% for the best human-designed photovoltaics. That is 2300% more efficient than God's handiwork.

The only logical conclusion is:

That God did not design plants.

Or

Man is smarter than God.


I'd suggest you come back to this thread the minute you find a human-made photovoltaic that is capable of this higher utilization of light energy and that uses the same materials and conditions for its existence, not to mention one that self-assembles from the same components as plants do.
Until then, I don't know why you'd even try to bother making a comparison between dissimilar creations in terms of which creator did a better job, since you aren't even comparing the same thing. 

Of course, I know that you're not stupid enough to actually assume that "God" didn't design plants because humans made something that performs more efficiently one isolated function that plants coincidentally perform as well.


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: fireworks_god]
    #10676096 -

Quote:
since you aren't even comparing the same thing.


True, I was only comparing the turning of photonic energy into electro-chemical energy to the turning of photonic energy into electro-chemical energy. Not sure how I got that wrong.


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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10676167 -

But what about when it's 5am and your girlfriend is not home yet, are solar panels then more efficent than plants?

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: Silversoul]
    #10677414 -

Silversoul said:
Qubit said:
Nope, doesnt work that way.  Efficiency is normalized with respect to area.  A forest full of 0.1% efficient plants is still 0.1% efficient.


Are you still talking about solar efficiency?  That is so missing the big picture.  I'm talking about how trees and other plants create ecosystems for other life to flourish.  It's pretty asinine to focus on a single entity while ignoring its ecological context.



So your implying that if god actually designed an efficient plant they wouldn't create ecosystems for other life to flourish?  There is no evidence of that at all.  Efficient plants would create an ecosystem just like inefficiency plants, they would just do it more efficiently.

As it stands plants are inefficient and thus arnt growing back as fast as they are cut down.  In this light, efficient plants can provide more in terms of ecosystem and food than in inefficient plant.

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: laserpig]
    #10677432 -

laserpig said:
B - plants could use a significantly greater amount of the sunshine they are exposed to, but nobody can figure out if this would provide them any tangible benefit in the context of an actual ecosystem


Plants dont evolve to benefit the ecosystem.  Natural selection has no big picture in mind, it takes place on generation, one species and one member of that species at a time.  Being more efficient at collecting energy would help a plant produce more viable offspring, and that is all that maters in natural selection.

Unless you are a creationist like the others on here, then you can make up any grand purpose or intent of nature that you want...

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: DieCommie]
    #10677448 -

Qubit said:
Silversoul said:
Qubit said:
Nope, doesnt work that way.  Efficiency is normalized with respect to area.  A forest full of 0.1% efficient plants is still 0.1% efficient.


Are you still talking about solar efficiency?  That is so missing the big picture.  I'm talking about how trees and other plants create ecosystems for other life to flourish.  It's pretty asinine to focus on a single entity while ignoring its ecological context.



So your implying that if god actually designed an efficient plant they wouldn't create ecosystems for other life to flourish?  There is no evidence of that at all.  Efficient plants would create an ecosystem just like inefficiency plants, they would just do it more efficiently.

As it stands plants are inefficient and thus arnt growing back as fast as they are cut down.  In this light, efficient plants can provide more in terms of ecosystem and food than in inefficient plant.


Smaller plants can grow quite quickly.  Anyone with ivy in their yard can tell you that.  But the smaller plants can't cycle as much CO2 through the atmosphere or regulate local climate as well as large trees.  Design always involves trade-offs.


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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: Silversoul]
    #10677502 -

I dont see how that is relevant to justifying ineffective photosynthesis as necessary by design.  A more efficient plant need not grow bigger, or faster, or smaller, or slower... it just has more energy available to do whatever it does (which for us non-creationists is to reproduce).

I object to your (and others) approach with this.  You are coming at it with the preconceived notion that plants were purposefully designed and now trying to throw together some ad hoc argument to justify why they were designed to be inefficient.  I prefer to throw out the preconceived notion of design and just accept the fact that natural selection doesnt always produce efficient life forms.

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: DieCommie]
    #10677595 -

In the future, humans will evolve to subsist on anti-matter and will only have to ingest an amount half the size of a pea every 10 years.

Then we will have even more time to post baseless nonsense. :yesnod:


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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10677775 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
In the future, humans will evolve to subsist on anti-matter and will only have to ingest an amount half the size of a pea every 10 years.

Then we will have even more time to post baseless nonsense. :yesnod:


Please don't post even more baseless nonsense, OC.

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: Existence]
    #10677835 -

It seems like anti-matter would do a number on your digestive system.


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.:. no more, no less .:.

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: Existence]
    #10677853 -

Careful noobie. I have friends in high calibers.

:minigun:


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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10677908 -

Plants may not be perfect.
But they are our only true friends.  :tongue2:


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.:. no more, no less .:.

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: holyconifer]
    #10678796 -

Ever get up close and personal with poison oak?


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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: DieCommie]
    #10678834 -

Qubit said:
I object to your (and others) approach with this.  You are coming at it with the preconceived notion that plants were purposefully designed and now trying to throw together some ad hoc argument to justify why they were designed to be inefficient.


I am doing no such thing, and I find it rather disingenuous of you accuse me as such.  I have been consistently against Intelligent Design.  I have merely defended the harmoniousness and effectiveness of natural systems and processes.  Even people like Richard Dawkins are willing to go that far.


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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: Silversoul]
    #10678899 -

Nice 'appeal to authority' fallacy. :thumbdown:


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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10678916 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Nice 'appeal to authority' fallacy. :thumbdown:


How so?


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