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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: laserpig]
    #10675329 -

I disagree, but you know what? Fine. Fuck all that. What about this:

laserpig said:
Accomplishing more with less energy usage is the definition of efficiency.


If you ask me, that's the crux of it.
Pants get all the energy they need from photosynthesis, and they do it with a minute fraction of the energy that's available to them. How does that prove anything other than that a plant's metabolism (including photosynthesis) is remarkably efficient?


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Weedmaster P knows the truth.

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10675366 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
In my research on plants, I was surprised to learn that photosynthesis only utilizes 0.1% of the light energy that reaches the leaves.

Compare this to about 23% for the best human-designed photovoltaics. That is 2300% more efficient than God's handiwork.

The only logical conclusion is:

That God did not design plants.

Or

Man is smarter than God.


Or:

Man is a manifestation of God just as plants are, and through us, He can make greater and more complicated things from solar energy.


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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: Silversoul]
    #10675378 -

I thought you would agree with laserpig that it is freezing cold in the rain forest...


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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10675389 -

No, but the rainforest certainly helps regulate the Earth's temperature by cycling carbon from the atmosphere.  Shame that we're cutting it down while releasing millions of years of stored-up carbon from the ground.


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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10675395 -

We went over this in one of Mr. Mushrooms many creationist threads.  If plants were indeed designed then their designer should be fired for incompetence.

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10675400 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Optimized systems. More astonishing that such a small percentage is enough


Why would you say that it is optimized? Did you know that 'natural' unselected apples and corn were nearly inedible until humans practiced selective breeding?


Hehe, maybe it would do some good if we would eat more apples :grin:
And if you say we need a whatever large field of plants for lightning one 75W bulb, then you only see how ineffective our way of producing light is in fact.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: DieCommie]
    #10675410 -

You don't agree with LP that failing to use 99.9% of the available energy is incredibly efficient?


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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: DieCommie]
    #10675428 -

Qubit said:
We went over this in one of Mr. Mushrooms many creationist threads.  If plants were indeed designed then their designer should be fired for incompetence.


How could you possibly know for what purpose they were designed? (if they were designed)

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10675435 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
I thought you would agree with laserpig that it is freezing cold in the rain forest...


If all the plants all over the globe suddenly switched over to using 10% of the light striking them instead of 0.1% (which you seem to feel would be "better"), less solar energy would be available to keep the planet at its current temperature & maintaining the ecosystem which said plants need to survive. But that's a largely irrelevant tangent -- I applaud you for so nimbly dodging my main thrust, which is that plants do everything they need to do with only a fraction of the energy they could be using: that to me is the hallmark of efficiency and good design.


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Weedmaster P knows the truth.

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10675442 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
You don't agree with LP that failing to use 99.9% of the available energy is incredibly efficient?


Well my refrigerator is connected to a zillion watt power grid. Therefore by not using all zillion watts it is inefficient. Can't argue with that logic.

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: DieCommie]
    #10675449 -

Qubit said:
We went over this in one of Mr. Mushrooms many creationist threads.  If plants were indeed designed then their designer should be fired for incompetence.


nonsense, see definition of 'effectiveness' from laserpig. It fits :smile:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: Existence]
    #10675472 -

A tribe is living by the banks of a river with one hundred million gallons of flow per year.
They use forty thousand of these gallons per year.
What an inefficient society!


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Weedmaster P knows the truth.

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #10675479 -

Using ad hoc definitions to justify a preconceived belief in some grand plan and purpose of nature?  You may like it, but I prefer to not deceive myself.

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: Existence]
    #10675540 -

Your analogy, like LP's, is incredibly flawed. I can spoon-feed you the answer or you could actually think about what you wrote.


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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10675610 -

Humans are inefficient because they can't live by photosynthesis?
Or did my logic train jump the track?

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: laserpig]
    #10675613 -

:thumbup: thank you.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10675625 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
In my research on plants, I was surprised to learn that photosynthesis only utilizes 0.1% of the light energy that reaches the leaves.


It has been shown that plants convert the energy from light photons to usable energy at a very high efficiency, even employing quantum funk to find the most efficient pathways through its photosynthetic system.

The thing is, plants only need a certain amount of energy, so they absorb exactly as much as they need, and then convert this with incredible efficiency into usable energy.

I COULD eat 10,000 calories a day if I wanted to, but I just don't need it.  Does that mean I am some sort of failure of evolution, or a Godless accident?

Orgone has his example backwards.  Plant's show their incredible efficiency and complexity by being so internally well designed that they only need to absorb a very small amount of sunlight.  If they were truly of inefficient design, they'd have to absorb more sunlight because they'd be wasting more through inefficient energy conversion.

Edited by Amber_Glow (07/14/09 02:25 PM)

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #10675633 -

Yes it does, you are a Godless accident.:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #10675653 -

Amber_Glow said:
The thing is, plants only need a certain amount of energy, so they absorb exactly as much as they need, and then convert this with incredible efficiency into usable energy.

I COULD eat 10,000 calories a day if I wanted to, but I just don't need it.


:thumbup:


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Weedmaster P knows the truth.

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Re: Plant evolution and God [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #10675668 -

If a tree was as efficient as a solar panel it would need only 1/230 as many leaves, which would mean fewer and thinner branches and so on. Most of its energy is wasted in bulding a zillion inefficient 'solar collectors' to compensate for the poor design.


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