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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9615397 -

You said nothing as an argument other than one cannot say whether divinity exists or not........that is personal, mysticism is something of it's own......call it what you want but don't read into it with thinking that you then have to accept EVERYTHING THAT OTHERS SAY ABOUT DIVINE THINKING.......that is a retards way of being an atheist.

Some people experiences intimacy with mystics, some think they experience intimacy with God (with no direct evidence through there personal experience other than just belief).......but hey, nobody has any evidence that drugs are good for them other than belief and perhaps life changes...life changes seem to be evidence.

but mostly, people cannot prove mystical reality; it isn't something technology can verify.

I do think it would be cool to record group hallucinations and see if it is recorded......that would be neat to see if it was really group hallucinations or if a mind or the minds had the power to create reality/manifest dreams into the physical.


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Drug chemicals are going to be more abundant and survive longer than any anti-drug agendas.  Some of us are just ahead of the game, we already know what the future will understand.  Drugs weren't bad but how some people used them were and some people just were bad because they had to be.

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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: Indigenous]
    #9615400 -

Indigenous said:
I wouldn't say it is a solid concept. I believe in higher being(s). I really don't know who, what, how or why they are. I have concrete reasons to believe what I do.

Such as?


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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: Lion]
    #9615445 -

Sorry, I don't talk about it on internet forums.

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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: TreeMoss]
    #9616023 -

Quote:
I do think it would be cool to record group hallucinations and see if it is recorded......that would be neat to see if it was really group hallucinations or if a mind or the minds had the power to create reality/manifest dreams into the physical.


Read up on the Fatima nonsense (circa 1913?). Thousands saw an atmospheric anomaly (sun dog) and swore it was the Virgin Mary. If that is not the sign of mass hallucination and projection, I don't know what is.

When I had a prolonged stay at an ashram, one excited young women told me that The Swami had  gave her shaktipat. He had press on her eyes and she saw a blue light. She was overjoyed. I explained phosphines to her and pressed on her eyes to induce the same effect. She cried and slapped me. I have been an evil skeptic for quiet a while. People rarely want the truth, preferring the comfort of illusion.


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (01/16/09 12:01 AM)

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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9618501 -

Well, it's a group hallucination based on shared values and ideas...I wouldn't see it as being the same has group LSD or yage hallucinations.......those are not really based on cultural values or other things that they were raised to see everywhere and worship and have ingrained into their thinking as "the only divine source of inspiration".

That is the neat thing about trippy drugs, you can find a tree to be a source of divine inspiration and not have to associate it with any "mystical" being.....you can if your mind wants to but it is silly to only be able to associate with known and accepted "religious" figures.

That is the neat thing about Native beliefs, about a great spirit (just the whole thing) and how anything and everything was worthy of being divine....without going into some huge drawn out philosophy.


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Drug chemicals are going to be more abundant and survive longer than any anti-drug agendas.  Some of us are just ahead of the game, we already know what the future will understand.  Drugs weren't bad but how some people used them were and some people just were bad because they had to be.

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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: Indigenous]
    #9618904 -

That's a terrible looking chip. I wouldn't eat it!


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: zouden]
    #9618979 -

Sorry I didn't feel like reading 4 pages of posts, so I'm just going to respond to the OP here.

There's something I feel that is very important that needs to be said. I think of it as a Universal Axiom. Maybe its just my interpretation, but if that is the case all I can offer you is my belief in an assumption. Besides, an axiom is not something that can be proven, but is taken to be self-evident.

That axiom is: Knowledge is infinite.

Infinite knowledge implies infinite unkowns. And that there is no "leading edge" of knowledge. What we have learned about our universe is only a infinitesimal part of a greater space of knowledge.  The more we learn about our universe, the more we will learn how much we don't know.


--------------------
Word to your mom.

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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #9619023 -

How can knowledge be infinite when the universe isn't?


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: zouden]
    #9619079 -

Ah I don't think we've disproved that the universe is infinite. Only that, at one point, the universe as we know it wasn't always configured this way.


--------------------
Word to your mom.

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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #9619153 -

i thought this pic fits well with the discussion


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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #9619349 -

BrainChemistry said:
Ah I don't think we've disproved that the universe is infinite. Only that, at one point, the universe as we know it wasn't always configured this way.


Hmmm, but the mass of the universe is constant, even though the volume is expanding. There's a fixed amount of energy in the universe. I think that classifies as 'finite', though there could be other universes.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: zouden]
    #9619617 -

I'm not convinced that it is finite, I could see black holes spewing out energy...someplace.......or something generating energy and not by nuclear power (which is just transfer from material).

Basically I could see energy coming into the Universe and not from the universe.


--------------------
Drug chemicals are going to be more abundant and survive longer than any anti-drug agendas.  Some of us are just ahead of the game, we already know what the future will understand.  Drugs weren't bad but how some people used them were and some people just were bad because they had to be.

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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: deimya]
    #9619633 -

Thats a brilliant philosophy. You cant understand or explain it, ergo it must be magical.

I find it extremely difficult to wrap my head around concepts such as infinity, consciousness etc and there are a million things that i cant explain or understand but that doesn't mean that there much be a supernatural cause to it all.

In fact the more i read about all the different theories regarding universal constants etc the more i can see that we might eventually be able to explain it all.

Granted it takes some creative and lateral thinking to fit some of the more wilder theories in to my world view, but i don't dismiss them as being impossible. I do however utterly reject the idea of a GOD.


--------------------
--------------------
We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!

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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #9619925 -

found another one laying around that i thought was relevant.


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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: reality_check]
    #9620192 -

I suppose I should leave a comment or two in this thread.  I'm not up for a prolonged dialogue but merely wish to add briefly to the conversation.

1)  Belief is a good word to describe one's thoughts on Intelligent Design because Intelligent Design isn't science, it's history.  In that way it has something in common with another historical explanation, i.e. evolution.  At times the two seemingly opposite theories conflict.  Yet, explanations such as FLE (Front-Loaded Evolution) seek to find a common ground between the two.

2)  Intelligent design halts further inquiry in the same way proposing we know the identity of a criminal stops us from looking for natural explanations for a crime.  In the same way the Copernican System stopped further permutations of the Ptolemaic System.  However, it does not halt all further inquiry in the sense that investigation can always be done.  Examples are plentiful.

3)  Methodological naturalism, i.e. science, is closely allied to Metaphysical naturalism which is purely a belief system.  Better views are obtained via philosophy, particularly metaphysics, than can be constructed inside such a limited worldview.

zouden:  Nice scope!  :thumbup:


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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: reality_check]
    #9620212 -

reality_check said:
found another one laying around that i thought was relevant.




How is the statement that inanimate particles worked together to form life and build a better world any less ridiculous?

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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: Indigenous]
    #9620381 -

It's not, because that's not the scientific theory.

A more accurate description would be that the chance collision of inanimate particles created the first self-replicating molecule, which then over a course of time mutated and evolved to bigger and more complex systems of self-replicating molecules.

Nothing intentional or inherently progressive about it; just the way it happened.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: zouden]
    #9620897 -

zouden said:
BrainChemistry said:
Ah I don't think we've disproved that the universe is infinite. Only that, at one point, the universe as we know it wasn't always configured this way.


Hmmm, but the mass of the universe is constant, even though the volume is expanding. There's a fixed amount of energy in the universe. I think that classifies as 'finite', though there could be other universes.


Actually there is not a fixed amount of energy in the universe. We've shown that the universe not only expanding, and expanding at an ever increasing rate. The only way for this to happen is if energy is somehow entering the system.

Although...I suppose that does depend on what you define as the "system".


--------------------
Word to your mom.

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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #9620974 -

Quote:
The only way for this to happen is if energy is somehow entering the system.



Why is this the only way?  There are quite a few different hypotheses regarding the expansion of the universe, and none of them require a violation of the first law of thermodynamics.

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Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: Veritas]
    #9621009 -

Well i'm not gonna lie i'm not an expert on the subject, although I am taking a course in cosmology this semester so hopefully I will be able to better answer this question.

But don't all the theories involve dark energy....which we know nothing about? Or expansion of space itself....which I don't believe could just happen spontaneously.


--------------------
Word to your mom.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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