Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 |  [ show all ]
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: Noteworthy]
    #9613289 -

And thus they are, for all practical metaphysical purposes, non-existent or supernatural since they never ever make themselves manifest. Invisible stuff has absolutely no relationship, causal or not, with homo sapien, and thus can be completely disregarded at no lost whatsoever. Worse, you can't even talk about whether or not they "exist" since they are not part of this world, again since they never ever make themselves manifest.

So while you're right, your statement carries no information about the world and the limits or absence of limit of the scientific pursuit.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: deimya]
    #9613302 -

There is nothing intelligent or designed about it, that is just human delusion stemming from wishful thinking.

But there might be more to where the Universe came from  or what all these bubble universes are contained in or getting around to being/doing.

Humans just need stories, myths to give them more power over others that don't share the beliefs that they do.......to feel superior and that they are "closer" to understanding ultimate power.

The fact is that the Universe exist in such a way that any accident is going to form something that seems to be designed or intelligent simply based on existence.  I must say there is something intelligent about life forming and so much life on a planet like ours.  But that seems to be within the odds with how many reactions go on within this huge existence. 

I seem to believe that there is a need for consciousness existence of the universe itself and that intelligence and design are simply a default as in there can be no other possibility.  But you can look at it through denial or you can come alive and see, maybe there was just no other possibility for things to exist and existence was needed....things that are needed seem to form/manifest.....there would be nothing without it and not even nothing.....not even nothing could exist........even zero is a number, it has form and existence..nothing cannot experience itself even to exist....something had to exist and well, things tend to stack up on other existing things.....call it design call it a smart thing or having awareness.........but things that exist are going to form a design and things that are around each other are going to be aware of each other through reacting.......it is really quite dumb, nothing intelligent about it....just things being and reacting...we find it smart since it is smart for us to notice, that we have intelligence and we can manipulate structures to design with choice...the universe has no choice, it just has a lot of room to do whatever and still more room to do it again or do it another way......it is INDIFFERENT.


--------------------
Drug chemicals are going to be more abundant and survive longer than any anti-drug agendas.  Some of us are just ahead of the game, we already know what the future will understand.  Drugs weren't bad but how some people used them were and some people just were bad because they had to be.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: TreeMoss]
    #9613351 -

I believe in intelligent design too.  :party:


In any case the fact that an explanation forestalls further inquiry doesn't mean its wrong or anything- it doens't mean anything.



I disagree with zouden though- science will never answer everything simply because there is alwasy uncertainty and that alone dooms it.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: johnm214]
    #9613371 -

Well, science may not survive long enough to explore everything; but what it can explore completely is answered......well, if questions arise.


--------------------
Drug chemicals are going to be more abundant and survive longer than any anti-drug agendas.  Some of us are just ahead of the game, we already know what the future will understand.  Drugs weren't bad but how some people used them were and some people just were bad because they had to be.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: deimya]
    #9613383 -

Why don't you provide me with a scientific explanation for the occurrence of Fibonacci's sequence in thousands of objects found in nature. There is no scientific explanation.


--------------------
Turn off your mind, relax and floatdown stream. It is not dying. Lay down all thought, surrender to the void. It is shining.
:darkside: Pink Floyd :darkside:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: NlightNd1]
    #9613407 -

NlightNd1 said:
Why don't you provide me with a scientific explanation for the occurrence of Fibonacci's sequence in thousands of objects found in nature. There is no scientific explanation.


Yes, it is called human observation.......there doesn't have to be meaning to purpose.........nature can do what it wants and it has it's own reasons......you are just seeing them everywhere thinking there is more and their isn't.  Nature does things to it's own thinking, it is called law........things form to their own advantage......if their is a design it isn't something supernatural or something that "God" manifested to see "him" everywhere.

Things just are and for their own reasons, individual ones and not one "cosmic plan".


--------------------
Drug chemicals are going to be more abundant and survive longer than any anti-drug agendas.  Some of us are just ahead of the game, we already know what the future will understand.  Drugs weren't bad but how some people used them were and some people just were bad because they had to be.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: NlightNd1]
    #9613582 -

NlightNd1 said:
Why don't you provide me with a scientific explanation for the occurrence of Fibonacci's sequence in thousands of objects found in nature. There is no scientific explanation.


actually, the golden ratio has been shown to have a logical derivation in nature in one instance and it suggests that a similar thing is occuring in other instances.

one must remember the relationship between fibonacci and golden ratio. if you find the ratio between two fibonacci numbers, the ratio will 'approximate' the golden ratio and as you move further up the fibonacci sequence, the ratio between consecutive numbers gets closer and closer to the golden ratio.

now, in plants, eg



each little inner flower is put in place in a sprial motion from the centre outward. the angle of rotation be flowers like this or other similar arrangements in nature is a multiple of the golden mean.

WHEN the angle of rotation between each sprouting 'bud' in the arrangement is a rational number (a fraction of two integers) then some of the buds end up closer to eachother and others further. the more irrational the number is, the more equidistant the buds are (and this is an important factor in the success of the flower).

it happens that the most even spacing of buds, or of branches, or of almost anything natural, is when it is formed by an angle that is based on a multiple of the golden ratio.

This might seem divine but it is really not.. it is just a fact of the universe that when there are plants which sprout buddings at angles that vary from the golden mean, they do not survive as well as ones that abide by the golden mean.

And as for wondering who put the big bang in place.. well if you consider time to always have existed then this question is a bit pointless, becuase before the big bang would assumedly be some other state of the universe perhaps that led to such a compression of the universe. The concept that the big bang occured when a previous universe collapsed into itself that much that all of its forces balanced into a single wave which was the resonance frequency of the universe. I could imagine that there would be only one period of the resonance frequency before the whole universe collapsed under the weight of its whole, and any artifacts in the transfer of energy in the universe-encompassing singularity that arise according to some intrinsic 'shape' of the universe (which I dont think we will ever be able to know about) would send the excrement of the big bang off into a chaotic variation.

an alternative is the idea that the universe began as this immensely dense singluarity containing infinite levels of information. for those that deny the existance of infinity, well then I say to you to show how many tangents you can draw on a circle, be it perfect or imperfect... and you will never be able to stop drawing tangents between tangents until you reach the limit of your eyes but you know that you could effectively keep drawing tangents all varying forever. that is, if you had godlike powers of perception in order to even test whether two lines are the same or an atom apart...

anyway yeah so this singularity with infinite layers like an infinite onion.

and this angle definately begs to ask who or what led to this package existing.. well at anyrate, as soon as time began, the package exploded (simply because that is what happens) and all of the energy in it scattered throughout the universe in a chaotic sprawl. though this sprawl is not trully chaotic.. it merely seems that way to us because we cannot see it from the right perspective across time and space. rather, it is the expression of all the information contained in that ball, and as long as time continues, the information of the universe (the spread of energy) will continue to morph and form patterns forever (since the original package contained information that was like drawing tangents on a spiral into infinity... and every moment had a distinct tangent.. but there were infinite moments between moments and moments after moments...
for as long as time occured and energy dispersed


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: Synesthetic]
    #9613826 -

Quote:
I do think a lot of scientists and materialists should be a bit more humble about their beliefs, especially if they ask the same of spiritualists and theists.


Please post this same message using a theistic computer and your wish would be granted. As spiritualism has bestowed no gifts to mankind, I will continue to look down on such superstitious nonsense.


--------------------

Edited by OrgoneConclusion (01/15/09 11:22 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9613845 -

No gifts? How about lucid dreaming? How about meditation? Those are huge gifts to mankind, and they came from spiritualism. Not from science.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: Diaboleros]
    #9613895 -

If you believe that computers were developed by atheists alone, please provide your source.

Edited by Indigenous (01/15/09 11:26 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: Indigenous]
    #9613932 -

Good point. The computer originated from a device that was trying to mechanically proof God. Check out Ramon Lull.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: Indigenous]
    #9613970 -

Quote:
Science is not a spiritual belief.


It is not a belief at all, but a methodology.

Quote:
Gifts to mankind have been given by people of all beliefs.


Please show how a belief in Crop Circles has provided any benefits.

Quote:
If you believe that computers were developed by atheists alone, please provide your source.


I will as soon as you show that is what I wrote.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9614004 -

I am not interested in playing word games with you. Last time I did the maid deleted all my posts and locked me out of the room.

I will retract my post and ask you to explain what a theistic computer is.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9614032 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Please show how a belief in Crop Circles has provided any benefits.



I am pretty sure that all people believe in crop circles. There are photos all over the internet.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: Indigenous]
    #9614041 -

Thesitic computer: a calculating machine whose design was based upon the tenets of one's religion and not materialism.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: Indigenous]
    #9614065 -

Quote:
I am not interested in playing word games with you.


I see. Is dishonesty a tenet of your belief system?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9614082 -

I call shenanigans. I have never heard of such a thing and can find no references to calculating machines being designed based upon the tenets of one's religion or materialism.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9614108 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
I am not interested in playing word games with you.


I see. Is dishonesty a tenet of your belief system?


Approximately 4 minutes elapsed between posts, giving me ample time to rethink my position.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9614150 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Thesitic computer: a calculating machine whose design was based upon the tenets of one's religion and not materialism.


Scientific naturalism itself is an outgrowth of the Greco-Christian worldview.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I believe in intelligent design [Re: Indigenous]
    #9614172 -

Man, computers have nothing to do with God at all......nothing...they process and as far as we have created the idea of God, God does not have any process.......just being.  I'd like to think that my God, my God head has a process.......that things of "spirit" are going somewhere......but really, God is our imagination.......just because people believe very ancient visions doesn't really mean much since people having visions today are quite insane....apparently God only had contact with humans up to 2000 years ago.

And the math in nature really doesn't mean anything other than nature has a way.........nothing about a magic wand making everything so much a purpose for a higher being......that is silly.

There is no need for God, God would just be something of itself...something that let go and things fallowed suite....nothing special about it......it just doesn't know any different.....obviously even the most chaotic developments will form a pattern if you have enough there.......it's just simply odds........nothing having anything to do with divine purpose or reasoning.......those are our things, are way of putting meaning into life.......we feel we need stories.  Just being isn't enough


--------------------
Drug chemicals are going to be more abundant and survive longer than any anti-drug agendas.  Some of us are just ahead of the game, we already know what the future will understand.  Drugs weren't bad but how some people used them were and some people just were bad because they had to be.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 |  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Intelligent Design newuser1492 685 2 06/23/05 11:06 AM
by Silversoul
* Intelligent Design
( 1 2 all )		 djd586 3,329 22 12/18/03 03:32 PM
by fireworks_god
* intelligent design or evolution? tak 2,774 18 08/12/04 12:46 AM
by Strumpling
* I want to debate a "creation scientist".
( 1 2 3 4 ... 11 12 all )		 Phluck 17,245 232 12/01/04 04:26 PM
by Diploid
* Argument by Design Bullfrog1 1,688 10 12/09/07 07:38 PM
by Holly
* Bush Wants Kids Taught 'Intelligent Design' In Biology Class
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )		 DiploidM 14,668 102 08/10/05 12:54 AM
by MushmanTheManic
* Race And Intelligence
( 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 all )		 DiploidM 18,874 199 09/28/05 08:14 AM
by crunchytoast
* On Artificial Intelligence Catalysis 1,575 8 04/25/02 12:41 PM
by Revelation

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
4,921 topic views. 1 members, 55 guests and 15 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.026 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 16 queries.