Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

The Spore Depot
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 |  [ show all ]
The Mystical proof
    #8969129 -

I keep getting into debates on this, especially with Markos. I keep asking this question and it never gets answered.

What makes what you say about your mystical truth any different then what the christian sez is true about the bible being the inspired word of god? That Jesus came into their lives at their request and they can feel it in their lives and know they are going to heaven. They pray to him and he actually answers their prayers Or for that matter any of the other dozens of religions that believe they have a handle on what is really going on with Ultimate Reality

Every time I ask this it gets completely ignored.  Why is that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (09/22/08 05:45 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: Icelander]
    #8969150 -

maybe because you don't use question marks.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: TameMe]
    #8969156 -

:lol:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: TameMe]
    #8969158 -

I usually do. That can't be it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: Icelander]
    #8969166 -

lol joooookes!!


--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: Icelander]
    #8969232 -

I don't think you are looking specifically for the philosophy about why the question is not answered; so much as you are looking for an attempt at an answer. I will however target the philosophy of why it is not answered directly.

The certaintific circuit is the system used by the experiential mind to condense temporally dynamic entities into temporally concrete entities. IE: it is the mind's method of referencing the surfaces burned on the physical interface in such a way as to maximize existential pleasure and fulfillment, and to minimize existential suffering.

There are only two functions this circuit possesses; catch and release. These functions however may be meticulously modulated, in the most time abstract sense the existential mind can attain.

The process of creating a good reality is the process of carefully modulating the catch/release mechanism such that the existential mind will maximize the ability to intake new experience while not overloading the certaintific system; causing a reactively provoked release cascade. As your reality improves it becomes more stable, and requires more gentle modulation between catch and release. A good reality will begin at the concepts immediately around self and gradually stretch itself outward.

If a good reality is being approached, and another being requests information about central notions; there is a risk that the explanatory process (the catch/release) modulation of the reality will be disrupted. This is partially because reality models are all fallible, and partially because a reality model remains sensitive for a long period of time before it becomes interpersonally stable around the self.

So questioning the basis of reality models, especially newly contrived or still in progress ones, will often be met with evasion or non-compliance.


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.

Edited by ExplosiveMango (09/22/08 08:41 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: Icelander]
    #8969302 -

Icelander said:
I keep getting into debates on this, especially with Markos. I keep asking this question and it never gets answered.

What makes what you say about your mystical truth any different then what the christian sez is true about the bible being the inspired word of god? That Jesus came into their lives at their request and they can feel it in their lives and know they are going to heaven. They pray to him and he actually answers their prayers Or for that matter any of the other dozens of religions that believe they have a handle on what is really going on with Ultimate Reality

Every time I ask this it gets completely ignored.  Why is that.



My answer is, objectively - no difference.  subjectively - every difference.

If you really wanted to get silly about it... depth of insight, knowledge, conviction without feeling threatened, the need or no-need of sharing these truths, outwardly observable changes in the person's life, social conformity, fear-uncertainty-death, etc.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #8969311 -

Hey thanks.:D


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: Icelander]
    #8971612 -

Because you cant proove what can't be prooven!

Its that simple, it can & never will be prooved.

The whole thing of proof is we search with the mind wanting SOLID evidence, when this is beyond any solid form, the only way to have proof is have it prooved inside you.

As i've said before we only believe something if its our inner direct experience, ifits merely mental then it doesnt sink in & thats the whole point of spirituality, that we stop looking for material satisfaction, that we stop going to the mind for our sense of self, that we start looking beyond what we can smell touch taste hear see & expand our consciousness to allow more awareness to shine through.

Its all about going beyond but within your own self & looking for proof generally is looking for something outside yourself that you can hold and say 'thats it' when that can never be it because you are that, if you start looking for proof with every cell of your body, not just your mind?

If you'd only question yourself instead of others you might see it for yourself, i hope that wasnt too much of a 'personalism', because its true, the only reason people dont 'get this' is because theyre looking for something outside of themselves when the truth its its all inside you.

I no longer see this a mystical truth or some religious ideal, its just true, everything tricks you to get the awareness going outwards when if you just look at yourself you'll see it all

:egyptian:


--------------------

Edited by Chronic7 (09/23/08 05:08 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: Icelander]
    #8971652 -

More advanced tests have recently provided a lot of solid evidence.

Dean Radin presents some in this lecture.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: Middleman]
    #8971657 -

I just posted proof myself in another thread.

Still, i dont consider anything proof except your own direct experiential seeing of it for yourself


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: Chronic7]
    #8971664 -

There is no proof. Where did you post your evidence?

Radin says that experience is 99.9% delusion, he's interested in the .01%.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: Middleman]
    #8971698 -

Youve probably seen it, 'the holographic universe'

Experience is 99% delusion, id agree, ie the experience of the senses, but that which experiences experience, the intrinsic awareness, is that 0.1%

What im saying is a mental knowledge of 'this is all illusory' just doesnt cut it, you have to experience with your entire being, with every cell in your body that all of this is an illusion. IMO this is the greatest experience in any body, it was for me the greatest experience possible even though it only lasted a split second...

I say 'you have to experience it' but relly whether you experience it or not is already ecided, theres nothing you can DO to experience it, your body/mind is either destined to realize it or its not ready to have its reality shattered yet...




--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: Chronic7]
    #8972348 -

Chronic777 said:
Still, i dont consider anything proof except your own direct experiential seeing of it for yourself


Mathematical/logical proof would be one step closer to absolute reality, methinks.  Next is direct experience, and next is assuming the existence of a material world upon which we can base our scientific reasoning.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: deCypher]
    #8972444 -

and

Direct personal experience needs interpretation. There is no way for sure to know if one is interpreting the experience correctly and this happens so often it is common.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: Icelander]
    #8972451 -

But the point is that you have no way to determine if your interpretation is correct or not, as any method that you use to do this will have to rely upon your flawed personal experience in the first place.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: Icelander]
    #8972469 -

Well, I don't know that it needs interpretation, but it sure does get it!  :lol:

It is important to recognize the perceptual filters through which we experience reality.  One of the reasons that scientific exploration is so structured and systematic is that it attempts to work around these filters, and arrive at a better approximation of what has occurred.  The same is true of logical analysis of beliefs...if one's beliefs are constantly at odds with reality, one will experience neurotic resistance to the disparity. 

The choice to maintain the same beliefs, and continue to experience neurotic resistance, appears to be more popular than the choice to revise beliefs to be a better match for reality.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: deCypher]
    #8972470 -

Well that's true for sure. That's why we do the best we can with the best guess at what we think is the best evidence.

Without guesses there's no survivals.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: Chronic7]
    #8973781 -

Chronic777 said:
Because you cant proove what can't be prooven!

Its that simple, it can & never will be prooved.

The whole thing of proof is we search with the mind wanting SOLID evidence, when this is beyond any solid form, the only way to have proof is have it prooved inside you.

As i've said before we only believe something if its our inner direct experience, ifits merely mental then it doesnt sink in & thats the whole point of spirituality, that we stop looking for material satisfaction, that we stop going to the mind for our sense of self, that we start looking beyond what we can smell touch taste hear see & expand our consciousness to allow more awareness to shine through.

Its all about going beyond but within your own self & looking for proof generally is looking for something outside yourself that you can hold and say 'thats it' when that can never be it because you are that, if you start looking for proof with every cell of your body, not just your mind?

If you'd only question yourself instead of others you might see it for yourself, i hope that wasnt too much of a 'personalism', because its true, the only reason people dont 'get this' is because theyre looking for something outside of themselves when the truth its its all inside you.

I no longer see this a mystical truth or some religious ideal, its just true, everything tricks you to get the awareness going outwards when if you just look at yourself you'll see it all

:egyptian:




:psychsplit: :thumbup: :thanx: :cheers:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Mystical proof [Re: Veritas]
    #8973906 -

Quote:
if one's beliefs are constantly at odds with reality, one will experience neurotic resistance to the disparity. 


You only say that because you have NOT mastered denial.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 |  [ show all ]

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Most Mystical/Spiritual Drug
( 1 2 3 all )		 Swami 4,788 52 09/09/03 05:58 PM
by Phalanxx
* If they found definitive proof of an afterlife....
( 1 2 3 4 all )		 Revelation 6,738 68 08/22/02 07:13 PM
by Danimal
* Contact Experiment
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )		 ShroomismM 14,023 106 09/15/02 09:08 PM
by Swami
* Mysticism - The Ultimate Science Source 1,598 18 04/09/04 11:44 PM
by Swami
* ESSAY:Psychedelic induced mystical experiences by Alan Watts tekramrepus 3,054 6 03/21/03 11:43 AM
by pattern
* Peyote Experience ~ Guys broken Ankle healed in seconds
( 1 2 all )		 CreatorMatrix14 3,737 24 04/08/04 11:13 AM
by Jim
* Inducing mystical experiences
( 1 2 all )		 Metasyn 4,494 29 03/14/17 10:00 PM
by beforethedawn
* Proof that faith is a crock?
( 1 2 3 all )		 GoBlue! 4,342 57 01/11/03 06:47 AM
by MarkostheGnostic

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
3,678 topic views. 0 members, 119 guests and 22 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.034 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 18 queries.