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Mushroom-Hut Shop: Liquid Cultures

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Validity isn't always truth.
    #7979860 -

Just a reminder. Also another reason I have previously said that logic is almost limiting. Don't get me wrong, logic is a very important tool.. but not the only way to find truth in things.
Here is a logic test I recently took if anyone else is interested.

http://www.think-logically.co.uk/lt.htm

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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: Love Cap]
    #7979927 -

this statement is false


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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: Love Cap]
    #7980081 -

It seems to me that the flaw you are talking about is a flaw with the person, not with logic itself. Logic never claimed that validity is truth, thats something a person would confuse. Y'know the old saying - garbage in, garbage out.

BTW, I get an error when submitting the logic test

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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: DieCommie]
    #7980111 -

exactly, logic says that validity isn't always truth because that wouldn't be very logical. This is why is was kind of a reminder I guess, not pointing out any flaws in logic.

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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: Love Cap]
    #7980180 -

As is usually the case, the cause of bad results is user error.  :badcomputer:

I was actually just tutoring somebody on the difference between true and valid about an hour ago at work (along with some venn diagrams).  For many people it is quite hard to distinguish between them.  Even smart people.  They are just so used to choosing what they think is logical instead of following the rules and structure they should be.

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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: DieCommie]
    #7982351 -

:shrug:  works for me..

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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: Love Cap]
    #7984321 -

You can have a deductively valid argument that is untrue, because validity is determined by structure, not content. I could say:

If the moon is made of blue cheese it's edible.
The moon is made of blue cheese.
So, it's edible.

This is valid. It is clearly untrue. The issue here is evaluating the quality of the premises. In this example, the second premise is obviously bunk.

Edited by NiamhNyx (02/05/08 09:04 PM)

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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7984558 -

You can't beat logic, man.

That just isn't...well, logical.

Logic isn't one tool. It's the whole fucking toolbox.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: g00ru]
    #7984643 -

Spock: Logic and practical information do not seem to apply here.
McCoy: You admit that?
Spock: To deny the facts would be illogical, doctor.


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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: Middleman]
    #7985991 -

Mmmmm!! Space energy!! And a badge?? Right on.


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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: g00ru]
    #7985998 -

guruu said:
You can't beat logic, man.

That just isn't...well, logical.

Logic isn't one tool.  It's the whole fucking toolbox.


:thumbup:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: g00ru]
    #7987607 -

I think you're missing a few tools then.

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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: Love Cap]
    #7987640 -

a long time ago there was a very interesting thread where someone posed the question "what is the opposite of death?".
Most answered "life". because we are rooted in western logic.
but the most correct answer (as correct as a value judgement can be) was "Birth" which is what the majority of eastern thinking people said.

Logic is never wrong because when you "know" you have it, there is no denying it, even if it leads you to the wrong (or atleast, not the best) answer.

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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7987677 -

both are logically correct... you can say that birth is closer to the correct answer because between the two.. birth is more intuitively correct.

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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: Love Cap]
    #7987883 -

well, both would be correct on some level, but death is viewed as the end of life... meaning that it is a part of life... atle4ast viewed from the eastern perspective... and as such, birth would be the beginning of life.

maybe the confusion came from a vocabulary difference as well.
maybe most westerners hear the word "death" and think of it in the broader sense... but even then, birth would be a more correct answer, IMO.

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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7987905 -

The opposite of end is not exist(ing), but beginning. Following the same logic, the opposite of death is birth, but this is far from being an intuitive answer. :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7988195 -

Just to clarify the terms here:

On most issues, it's entirely possible to make several different logical arguments that come to different conclusions. There are two types of logical argument, deductive and inductive. Deductive arguments are about things that are undeniably true, facts. Inductive arguments, on the other hand, are about things with no conclusive or indisputable conclusion. These issues are open to a variety of interpretations and there is room for rational people to differ in thier views. Most topics that are interesting enough to discuss require inductive reasoning.

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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7988204 -

NiamhNyx said:
Just to clarify the terms here:

On most issues, it's entirely possible to make several different logical arguments that come to different conclusions. There are two types of logical argument, deductive and inductive. Deductive arguments are about things that are undeniably true, facts. Inductive arguments, on the other hand, are about things with no conclusive or indisputable conclusion. These issues are open to a variety of interpretations and there is room for rational people to differ in thier views. Most topics that are interesting enough to discuss require inductive reasoning.


Either way, it's still logic. And much of the time there is a solution inductive reasoning can bring you too that is infinitely superior to any alternative.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: g00ru]
    #7988218 -

Sometimes. But for many issues there is a fair amount of room for rational disagreement, and whether or not your prefer one side or another depends on how you prioritize values.

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Re: Validity isn't always truth. [Re: g00ru]
    #7988231 -

On most issues, if you really believe that your view is the RIGHT ONE and that for someone to disagree they must be stupid or evil, that's called dogmatism and it isn't very rational at all. Although, yes, there are good and bad arguments. My point is just that good (and bad) arguments can be made on either side of a contentious issue.

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Mushroom-Hut Shop: Liquid Cultures

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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