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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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humans are robots
    #7713817 - 12/04/07 01:29 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Does anyone else get the feeling that absolutely everything we do is programmed and has been determined for us since birth?

That most people (or even more frightening, all people) are not really alive at all but acting out conditioned responses of their mind?

If I walked up to you, and told you that you were nothing more than an artificial program, would you believe me?

You know, a lot of people say we are animals.. I think we're a lot closer to being machines.

The main point I'm getting at is this - is higher self-awareness simply the ability to detach oneself from one's programs? And what would the point of this be if there is no real self to find outside the programs?

It is nights like these I'm thankful for the veil of materialism and the layers of illusion we can distract ourselves in. I remember Markos recently said that it is the greedy ignorant masses who are terrified by infinity and I suppose you can count me in with those for now. It is not the emptiness, or the love that is terrifying, it's the fact that everyone you thought you "loved" was nothing more than a projection of your mind and that those people are also mostly just minds who are barely more alive than a rock.

I mean, wouldn't you rather be asleep than have to be the only person awake enough to see the futileness of the masses? How many awake people are out there? Maybe it's getting less lonely...


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InvisibleCameron
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Registered: 10/31/07
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Re: humans are robots [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7713852 - 12/04/07 02:01 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well, we're all 'programmed' in to our respective societies from birth; without that training we wouldn't be nearly as advanced and separate from the rest of the animal kingdom as we are now. With that programming comes the conditioned responses you refer to - we make most, if not all, of our decisions based on what we've seen or heard, what we've been programmed to believe is the proper response or action (or, in probably an equal number of cases, we make our decisions on a more primitive level - eg: fight or flight). I guess the real defining attributes that identify us as living beings are the bonds we form and the emotional connections we create with eachother, rather than the thought processes we run through on a daily basis. That's my take, but I have yet to attain any sense of higher self awareness; I'm merely musing on a foundation of very little life experience.


Edited by Cameron (12/04/07 02:26 AM)


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: humans are robots [Re: Cameron]
    #7713866 - 12/04/07 02:15 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I appreciate your thoughts. It's amazing how unreliable people are yet how much we need them to .. stay sane.


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InvisibleMerkin
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Re: humans are robots [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7714018 - 12/04/07 04:59 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

yes, we are merely a forgotten echo, and we will be alone forever.


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Wheels of cheese wheeels of cheeeeese!!!


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OfflineLion
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Re: humans are robots [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7714082 - 12/04/07 06:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I know that most of the time at least I am acting out of totally conditioned patterns of behavior.  Sometimes I become aware of it and consciously change it... but even this is determind by my becoming aware of it.  IMO everything is totally determined, but there is no self and nothing happening anyay.  If there is awareness of that, there is a light, spontaneous-feeling quality to life.  When and whether that awareness will exist is determined. :tongue:

"People...go through their lives in a sort of coarse comfort, like petted animals, without ever realizing that they are probably thinking other people's thoughts, living by other people's standards, wearing practically what one may call other people's second-hand clothes, and never being themselves for a single moment.

...Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."

Oscar Wilde


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: humans are robots [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7714478 - 12/04/07 09:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Does anyone else get the feeling that absolutely everything we do is programmed and has been determined for us since birth?

That most people (or even more frightening, all people) are not really alive at all but acting out conditioned responses of their mind?

If I walked up to you, and told you that you were nothing more than an artificial program, would you believe me?

You know, a lot of people say we are animals.. I think we're a lot closer to being machines.

The main point I'm getting at is this - is higher self-awareness simply the ability to detach oneself from one's programs? And what would the point of this be if there is no real self to find outside the programs?

It is nights like these I'm thankful for the veil of materialism and the layers of illusion we can distract ourselves in. I remember Markos recently said that it is the greedy ignorant masses who are terrified by infinity and I suppose you can count me in with those for now. It is not the emptiness, or the love that is terrifying, it's the fact that everyone you thought you "loved" was nothing more than a projection of your mind and that those people are also mostly just minds who are barely more alive than a rock.

I mean, wouldn't you rather be asleep than have to be the only person awake enough to see the futileness of the masses? How many awake people are out there? Maybe it's getting less lonely...




I would rather not be asleep. It's not that there is no reality out there. It's that we don't know what it is. As humans we have a human nature. You could call this a level of being programmed. Beyond that we have a culture that creates a "hyper reality" that has nothing much to do with our natural reality. It's as if we live in the map and never notice that it is a representation of a so called reality.

Disneyland is supposed to be a fairyland and we know that when we go in. But is it really different than L.A. or Vegas or your home town? We are lost in a matrix of culture and are asleep to the fact that we are no longer "real". This seems to be the human condition and could be a natural outcome of the self-aware brain that has come about as a evolutionary adaptation. The whole problem revolves around the fact that with this self-reflective awareness we came to understand that we are not permanent. We have been running from this awareness ever sense.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: humans are robots [Re: Icelander]
    #7714497 - 12/04/07 09:35 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I change my mind from last night. Although we may be robots, there are some people out there who are good enough imitations of the real thing.

Quote:

Beyond that we have a culture that creates a "hyper reality" that has nothing much to do with our natural reality




This is very strange indeed. From my perspective, this hyper reality has a life of its own in the minds of individuals - it exists because enough people believe it does. I examined it once while on LSD, and it kind of looked like this picture:



This hyper reality limits the mind greatly and stifles self expression in those that put their faith in it. I'd go so far to say that it is a virus in consciousness.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: humans are robots [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7714506 - 12/04/07 09:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

And what's the "real thing"? :strokebeard:
Or better yet, who? :hehehe:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: humans are robots [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7714522 - 12/04/07 09:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think DNA itself naturally evolved, it's some kind of organic robotic high technology...


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: humans are robots [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7714523 - 12/04/07 09:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i'm the real thing :sunny:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: humans are robots [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7714605 - 12/04/07 10:07 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
I change my mind from last night. Although we may be robots, there are some people out there who are good enough imitations of the real thing.

Quote:

Beyond that we have a culture that creates a "hyper reality" that has nothing much to do with our natural reality




This is very strange indeed. From my perspective, this hyper reality has a life of its own in the minds of individuals - it exists because enough people believe it does. I examined it once while on LSD, and it kind of looked like this picture:



This hyper reality limits the mind greatly and stifles self expression in those that put their faith in it. I'd go so far to say that it is a virus in consciousness. 




Interesting you say virus as in the movie  The Matrix. So...Want to take an amazing look at the rabbit hole? I totally recommend this book to everyone. A Beginner's Guide to REALITY, by Jim Baggott The book for anyone who has ever wondered what is real and how we know.:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: humans are robots [Re: Icelander]
    #7714660 - 12/04/07 10:20 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

One of my favorite quotes:

We reproduce catastrophe because we ourselves are traumatized – both as a species and individually, beginning at birth. Because we are wounded, we have put up psychic defenses against reality and have become so cut off from direct participation in the multidimensional wilderness in which we are embedded that all we can do is to navigate our way cautiously through a humanly designed day-to-day substitute world of symbols - a world of dollars, minutes, numbers, images and words that are constantly being manipulated to wring the most possible profit from every conceivable circumstance. The body and spirit both rebel - David Watson (The Pathology of Civilization)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: humans are robots [Re: Middleman]
    #7714721 - 12/04/07 10:34 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

This is a very accurate quote IMO.

The most important question for those who care is,"what can I do about this"? There are no easy answers. And then you have to ask yourself "what's really at stake here"? Like Cypher in the Matrix one will have to ask the question,"what is more real", the physical world or the world of the mind? Think hard before you decide which would be your choice. Life in the cold hard light of the real world "eating the same goddamn goop every day" or would you prefer to go back to sleep, all memory of the real world erased, be rich and famous (the promise of the matrix) and live out the celebrity lifestyle of your dreams?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: humans are robots [Re: Icelander]
    #7715168 - 12/04/07 12:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"A difference that makes no difference, IS no difference." ~ Spock


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: humans are robots [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7715479 - 12/04/07 01:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"The creature within me is gone. I am free of it, and the pain. I am also quite blind. An equitable trade, Doctor. Thank you." ~ Spock


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: humans are robots [Re: Middleman]
    #7715803 - 12/04/07 02:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"The creature within me is gone. I am free of it, and the pain." ~ Shmoopy's mom


--------------------


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: humans are robots [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7715806 - 12/04/07 02:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:lol:


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: humans are robots [Re: Middleman]
    #7719144 - 12/05/07 10:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

No.. robots dont do stupid, strange and absurd things like humans do.

Humans have very interesting emotions.

Even think of embarassment. Thats like the worst.. being embarassed infront of alot of people. We feel stupid and turn beet-red and act in strange ways. Robots wouldn't do that shit.


but i get what you're saying.

In the end, yes we are machines, so are all animals. We are all self-made machines.. somehow.


--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: humans are robots [Re: Ginseng1]
    #7719272 - 12/05/07 11:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, having emotions is stupid. :rolleyes:
Feeling embarrassed or fearsome is low and robots kick ass for not feeling all that shit.:rolleyes:
I have no respect and tolerance towards this kind of thinking, it is a low and pathetic way of acting like sorry asses, running away from responsibility and it always leads to psychosis.
Being human is such a complex and interesting experience and limiting our awareness only to these aspects, emphasizing only this aspect of who we are is just sad and frankly is a place where I don't want to be.
We have all the means to make our lives the way we want, to work on ourselves and become our ideal, feel everything there is to feel in this human form... it is all part of this amazing experience. Why should we feel disgusted for what we are? Tell me, what's the reason for doing so, when instead we could choose to let this life flow naturally, wonder at the multitude of ways in which we exist and coexist?
Yes, we have robot characteristics. But are these the only ones that we have? Didn't we, by any chance, create those robots? Can robots create? I think that maybe the most important trait that we have is exactly this creativity and ability to expand it in every possible aspect of our lives. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: humans are robots [Re: Middleman]
    #7719290 - 12/05/07 11:32 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
One of my favorite quotes:

We reproduce catastrophe because we ourselves are traumatized – both as a species and individually, beginning at birth. Because we are wounded, we have put up psychic defenses against reality and have become so cut off from direct participation in the multidimensional wilderness in which we are embedded that all we can do is to navigate our way cautiously through a humanly designed day-to-day substitute world of symbols - a world of dollars, minutes, numbers, images and words that are constantly being manipulated to wring the most possible profit from every conceivable circumstance. The body and spirit both rebel - David Watson (The Pathology of Civilization)




Yes.

The universe-as-machine metaphor annoys the shit out of me. I read a great book once, called "The Death of Nature" by Carolyn Merchant, in which she researched the origins of that idea and it's political/social context, and argued that it was a part of an ideological development away from the previous universe-as-organism metaphor that underscored a relationship to our environment as one of respect and care to one of utilitarian exploitation. I highly recommend the book.


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