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Offlinejiva
dream serpent

Registered: 11/06/03
Posts: 141
Loc: everywhere all the time
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
Re: Matrix Trilogy decoded. LONG, discussion to follow [Re: quemo]
    #2102249 - 11/13/03 03:11 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Beautiful explination! I think the coolest thing about the matrix is that it is a versatile template for existence that can be applied over a rational or an irrational model of reality.


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i am another you

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Offlineiamhimheisme
jesus christ

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 258
Loc: where i dont want to be
Last seen: 14 years, 27 days
Re: Matrix Trilogy decoded. LONG, discussion to follow [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2103529 - 11/13/03 09:05 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

HagbardCeline said:
What do you believe Satan's intention was in the Garden of Eden when he convinced Eve to eat the apple? (The serpent was Satan right?)

Isn't Lucifer translated as light bringer?

I'm not exactly up on my Bible studies but why was Satan thrown out of heaven?

From what I remember Satan was God's right hand man. The only story we are getting is God's version. What if he just disagreed with the way God was treating us, and thought he had a better way.





thinking about that now it makes sense. the only flaw i see is that god and satan to my knowledge(which isnt too extensive in christianity), dont appear to have the same resultant relationship of the oracle and architect.

if this were the case, it could also be said that population of xion freeing people from the matrix were demons of a sort as they symbolically spread the fruit of the tree of knowledge to those entrapped in the 'eden,' by presenting the hidden choice. it would seem that although the series' protagonist is the humans and more specifically neo, it takes the perspective of the machines (or at least those machines opposed to human freedom) with these religious overtones in mind. a flaw in this explanation is that neo (a human) symbolizes christ whereas the architect (a machine) symbolizes god. however it could be said that in a way, the architect created neo as he provided the environment from which neo developed.

of course, i could be thinking/reading far too much into it, but at least thinking about it keeps me entertained

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InvisibleSuperD
Cacti junky
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
Re: Matrix Trilogy decoded. LONG, discussion to follow [Re: quemo]
    #2103648 - 11/13/03 09:28 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Well if you rearrange the letters in Mobil Ave. you get Limbo, Limbo Ave. at the train station :O


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:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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OfflineHagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
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Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 10,028
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Re: Matrix Trilogy decoded. LONG, discussion to follow [Re: ZenGecko]
    #2103723 - 11/13/03 09:45 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

If he wasn't purposely designed, then why would it be "the function" of the one to return to the source.

Also, at the end between the architect and the oracle, doesn't he say to her something the effect of "I hope you know what you have done."
That would imply that she did in fact have a hand in this outcome which is obviously different from the previous five.  If I remember Revolutions correctly, the Architect seemed suprised that Neo chose to save Trinity instead of going back to the source.

Also, in order for events to play out as they should, Smith would have to believe Neo was human (which he was, but designed by the machines)not just another machine such as hiself.

Free will is the very thing they were saying kept the "crops" alive.  The only thing that allowed people to accept the Matrix is the choice to accept or reject it.  They realize it must exist for humans to exist.  I don't believe they were trying to eliminate it.

And saying that one must eventually choose the other path, I don't buy either.  I think it would be a statistical improbability that in 5 episodes, with 50/50 odds, that choice A would be picked every time.  Something had to change with this "one" to make him pick the other choice, and the Oracle is the one who engineered it.

But, that's my take, and like was said before this is open to interpretation.  But let's try and hash it out anyway. :wink: :tongue:
 


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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OfflineHagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 10,028
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Re: Matrix Trilogy decoded. LONG, discussion to follow [Re: SuperD]
    #2103761 - 11/13/03 09:53 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SuperD said:
Well if you rearrange the letters in Mobil Ave. you get Limbo, Limbo Ave. at the train station :O 




Quote:

HagbardCeline said:
Mobil Ave. Train Station = Limbo




:laugh:   


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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OfflineZenGecko
enthusiast
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 285
Last seen: 1 year, 13 days
Re: Matrix Trilogy decoded. LONG, discussion to follow [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2104477 - 11/14/03 12:56 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

The choice that i was talking about was not the choice to save trinity, it was the choice to be the one. In each incarnation of the matrix eventually someone would make the choice because someone could make the choice. And everytime someone did, it fucked everything up an they had to start all over again. Each incarnation of the matrix persisted for along time, then eventually the choice that would cause them to have to restart would be made. Viewing it that way it is not a statistical improbablity, because on a long enough time scale it is statistically certain that the choice would eventually be made each incarnation of the matrix, the same applies to the choices that made this course of event deviate from each prior course of events. also alot of that has to do with being cinimatic which i'll illustrate in a moment...IT was a huge hassle for the machines to keep having to reload the matrix and start all over, and if you'll notice quite a few machines die, which is wasted resources, and also there is the issue of kinship between the machines. They may not like it when other machines die just like we dont like it generally when people die. That is a pretty could reason for the machines not creating the one purposely thus setting into motion repeatedly events that would cause a huge hassle repeatedly. As far as the function of the one... The function of the one is to make the choice that eventually had to be made, and to be the savior, usually by returning to the source (dying i'd wager) because it is enevitable for the one to come about(on a long enough time scale as mentioned earlier), when he does. it screws everything up, so he has to go(die/return to the source) so everything can be restarted, and that is exactly what happened every incarnation of the matrix up until the final incarnation(well actually he still returned to the source but events unfolded a lil differently this time). Neo created smith,(not the machines) atleast the new and improved smith. Smith only trancended the matrix because of the joining or whatever with neo. Up until then smith was not particularly special, but because the possibliity existed that he could become like neo after neo detroyed him the first time,(that gave him the ability to replicate and merge later on) then eventually this would have to occur, because the possibility of it occuring existed. And for cinematic reasons and logical reasons it had to occur in this incarnation of the matrix, because if it didn't neo would loose, and both the matrix and humanity would have been destroyed, which is another way they could have gone, but most of us probably would have been pretty pissed about that. This machines creating neo and the super smith stuff just isnt in the movie, i dont even see how its implied. As far as the oracle/satan stuff goes, the only similarity i see is that they both opened a pandoras box, satan got us to eat the forbidden fruit, thus introducing knowledge of good and evil and all the complications of that, and the oracle helped end the status quo of repeating matrixs, thus introducing the possibility that not only the matrix would end but all of humanity and the machine world too. Luckily for everyone it didn't turn out that way. Finally at the end, i'm not sure about the line that someone said the architect said earlier,(i certainly dont remember that line being said) but i do know he said something to the effect of, how long do you think this peace will last? or do you really think this peace will last?
Now is it just me or does anyone else think that the train man was another omage to alice in wonderland? I mean that guy was totally the madhatter. I dont know what was with the watches though, wasn't it the white rabbit who was into watches and worried about being late?

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OfflineDeiymiyan
I AM

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 656
Loc: Within the Realm of Imagi...
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Matrix Trilogy decoded. LONG, discussion to follow [Re: MycoCat]
    #2105326 - 11/14/03 07:54 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

And Lucifer was the most perfect of angles, and was God's right hand ...



Lucifer played the music.






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Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..


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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 4 years, 6 days
Re: Matrix Trilogy decoded. LONG, discussion to follow [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2109437 - 11/15/03 03:45 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

HagbardCeline said:
If he wasn't purposely designed, then why would it be "the function" of the one to return to the source.




Although the movie is farfetched to begin with, I think it's even more farfetched to think the machines hatched some extremely complex, elaborate plot to make a genetically enhanced Jesus figure that would become a false savior of humanity, be brainwashed into choosing to return to the source etc. These are machines with basically no creavity to begin with, who can't even understand love, why would they have such a flawless understanding of religion and spirituality, human emotion and attachment, and all that. It seems more plausible that the machines "adapted" to the existence of Neo.

My whole opinion is based on the assumption that the Architect's speech doesn't have to be taken literally.

He could have said it is the "function" of the One to return to the source because that is what has happened the last 5 times and therefore the Architect has formulated in his mind that this is what Neo will always do.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom

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OfflineNoviseer
Percussion isFree
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 3,994
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Matrix Trilogy decoded. LONG, discussion to follow [Re: pattern]
    #2109525 - 11/15/03 04:24 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

pattern said:
Quote:

HagbardCeline said:

He could have said it is the "function" of the One to return to the source because that is what has happened the last 5 times and therefore the Architect has formulated in his mind that this is what Neo will always do.




true, that is a very machine-like thought process.


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_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
_________________________________________________________________

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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Matrix Trilogy decoded. LONG, discussion to follow [Re: Noviseer]
    #2109549 - 11/15/03 04:36 PM (20 years, 4 months ago)

if any of you guys think a matrix "trilogy" actually exists, you are delusional. There was one matrix film, the other two were franchise sequals (money money money).

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OfflineZenGecko
enthusiast
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 285
Last seen: 1 year, 13 days
Re: Matrix Trilogy decoded. LONG, discussion to follow [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2114275 - 11/17/03 01:43 AM (20 years, 4 months ago)

i liked them all very much. The only real complaint is that i was left wanting more. But is that so bad?
Sincerely,
That which is, and has no choice but to be

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