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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Deja Vu
    #7285957 -

Your entire life has already taken place. This exact moment is just a memory being re-evaluated. You live every day exactly the same as the last time. Its not a cycle of the same thing every year but a redundant cycle of reality. People say your life begins at the last memory you ever have as a child but I think it just continues on forever until the end of the universe and restarts from there. Deja vu is not as old as you think you are but, instead infinitely old. Its 1 trillion years old. the same memory at this same moment; never ending; forever.


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So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

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Re: Deja Vu [Re: mikebart101]
    #7286022 -

this was an idea of nietzche, right?

I'd like to ask what the difference is between experiencing the exact same life 1,000 times and just experiencing it once.

If the lives are exactly the same, there can be no interaction between them. Any interaction would introduce new experience, thus rendering them incongruous.

Since there can be no interaction between this life and replica lives, replica lives are functionally, strictly an idea in this life. Deja vu then is an experience of patterns repeating in this life, or else a neurological fluke that tells you there are repeating patterns.

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Re: Deja Vu [Re: mikebart101]
    #7286853 -

How could the same life be lived repeatedly, indefinitely? Just as the sequence once began, it shall end. With mathematical precision it might return to the exact state it did just before it began - matter and energy would assemble, the Big Bang occurs, matter and energy displace again throughout the universe as it already has as dictated by mathematics.

But how could we carry an enigmatic memory through lifetimes without altering the energy makeup of the system? Perhaps with each revolution, the makeup is altered only slightly and we just happen to receive bits and pieces, hints into the workings of the universe. Maybe change is occurring, but very slowly, so slowly we live a lifetime a million times before enough energy has been transposed in placement to such a degree that we become another being.

These preserves various theories, but includes one of my favorites - the universe will never be the same again. Though it may be remarkably similar, the tiny variations ensure a universe of change. Wishful thinking. I'm enjoying this life, but to be the only one I ever life would be depressing. I think it is, but at the same time I think the energy I hold during this life will be passed on elsewhere when I die. Eventually, if it ends up being largely partitioned to a similar but slightly different elbisivni, then so be it.


I am confounded by deja vu. I've been keeping a record of each experience since around the time I was 12 - no repeats of course, but they have been getting more intense. It is not unusual for me to have a one that goes multiple experiences deep - "I remember remembering having this deja vu." etc. Also experiencing deja vu's I strongly believe I've had before in this lifetime. Though admittedly, probably half of the experiences are based around events considered regular and repetitive, which makes the possibility of profoundness much more limited.

Such a peculiar feeling it is to have an out-of-body experience in which you go further out-of-body. Like looking down a tunnel of endlessly replicated occurrences.


Infinite Regression/Reduplication


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

Edited by elbisivni (08/12/07 07:39 AM)

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Re: Deja Vu [Re: mikebart101]
    #7287263 -

mikebart101 said:
Your entire life has already taken place. This exact moment is just a memory being re-evaluated. You live every day exactly the same as the last time. Its not a cycle of the same thing every year but a redundant cycle of reality. People say your life begins at the last memory you ever have as a child but I think it just continues on forever until the end of the universe and restarts from there. Deja vu is not as old as you think you are but, instead infinitely old. Its 1 trillion years old. the same memory at this same moment; never ending; forever.


If it's already happened, and it will happen over and over again, why is recognizing it significant?

What you're basically saying is, "Outside of your perception are things you will never know and understand... oh yeah and they're exactly like this." Kind of a dull fantasy, sorry.

Only a trillion years? Come on, can't we at least repeat it infinitely? Wait, you did say infinite. So infinity = 1,000,000,000,000? Crazy. Yawn.

What event set off your magical consciousness perpetual-motion machine exactly a trillion years ago?


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Edited by figgusfiddus (08/12/07 11:01 AM)

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Re: Deja Vu [Re: Epigallo]
    #7287265 -

bradley said:
this was an idea of nietzche, right?


Maybe in one of his unpublished, more syphilitic moments.

(No, this is not Nietzsche.)


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Re: Deja Vu [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7287282 -

Yeah when I fall into my ego-splitting-insanity (that's how I call it)
I feel like I'm on a thought-wave, deferling, but never ending. Never coming to the shore. And I live in a déja-vu.

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Re: Deja Vu [Re: Justice_Fish]
    #7287289 -

Quote:
Yeah when I fall into my ego-splitting-insanity (that's how I call it)
I feel like I'm on a thought-wave, deferling, but never ending. Never coming to the shore. And I live in a déja-vu.


Have you been carried out to sea? Don't deferl in the ocean, people swim there.


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Re: Deja Vu [Re: mikebart101]
    #7287355 -

Your entire life has already taken place.

I doubt it. I own an iPod and they were just recently invented. I couldn't have owned one in a prior life. :shrug:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Deja Vu [Re: Diploid]
    #7287406 -

I think he means that the specific time frame of your life is on an endless loop. You know, you're living the years 1980-2009 (sorry, two years to live) over and over and over. Not that it makes any more sense either way.


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Re: Deja Vu [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7287443 -

You mean I've been listening to Disco over and over again throughout eternity? No wonder some people shoot themselves in the head. :whoa:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Deja Vu [Re: Diploid]
    #7287603 -

I'm saying you live the same lives every cycle of the universe, and its been going on forever; not that when you die you end up in the life you had just lived. Instead, in a trillion years or so when the universe collapses and restarts you will be sitting here reading this again.


--------------------
So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

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Re: Deja Vu [Re: mikebart101]
    #7287614 -

You have no reason to think that the physical compression and expansion of the universe actually involves some kind of metaphysical cycle by which all events are replayed endlessly. It's human aesthetics enforcing itself on inhuman reality. What kind of huge human philosophical problem does imagining this situation actually solve? None. It's just a, "Hey man, wouldn't it be trippy if..." kind of statement.

I'm sure it's fun to mull over when you're tripping, but I can think of more productive and relevant topics of study without having to invent new ones.

"Heeey man, I wonder if you can leave messages for yourself, like in that episode of Star Trek."


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Edited by figgusfiddus (08/12/07 01:39 PM)

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Re: Deja Vu [Re: mikebart101]
    #7287631 -

Old hat.  I must have heard this one a billion times.

:nogame:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: Deja Vu [Re: mikebart101]
    #7287654 -

Instead, in a trillion years or so when the universe collapses and restarts you will be sitting here reading this again.

The available evidence points to an expanding and accelerating universe, not a slowing down and eventually contracting one.

So much for your anthropocentric ideas. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Deja Vu [Re: Lion]
    #7287666 -

bug said:
Old hat.  I must have heard this one a billion times.

:nogame:



Yeah, these would be way more interesting if they put a new spin on them, or at least started combining them or something.

HEEEEEEEEY MAN did you hear that in 2012 we're all going to learn about fractals from the Olmecs, and they're going to teach us how to create pyramids and crop circles with lasers or crystals or the power of love or something? Or maybe we're learning about Olmecs from the fractals. I don't know, either way there is probably a Ouija board involved, according to my sister who is a Wiccan and pretty much knows her shit.


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Edited by figgusfiddus (08/12/07 01:55 PM)

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Re: Deja Vu [Re: Diploid]
    #7287675 -

Diploid said:
Instead, in a trillion years or so when the universe collapses and restarts you will be sitting here reading this again.

The available evidence points to an expanding and accelerating universe, not a slowing down and eventually contracting one.

So much for your anthropocentric ideas. :shrug:



Here ya go... http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2007/07/a_cyclic_universe.php


--------------------
So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

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Re: Deja Vu [Re: mikebart101]
    #7287684 -

Yes, that is one prominent theory, in which matter compresses and re-expands every so many billions or trillions of years. Cyclical big bang and all that.

That still has nothing to do with time being cyclical. That bit's pretty much just your mind bobbling along its merry little path by itself.

The fact that it occurs more than once, and can be known (or thought) to happen more than once) indicates that the "life span" of one cycle of the universe is not the entirety of theoretical time, that time is linear. Additionally, if deja vu is the "bleed-thru" between time cycles (which is still a load of tripe), then a material change has automatically been affected which distinguishes these cycles, thus they are not truly cyclical but linear.

Every thought you have has a material representation (assuming you believe in the fundamentals of brain chemistry), and has the potential to effect even greater material change upon the universe (through your actions). Thus... your deja-vu would even under this unlikely and somewhat silly system defeat the system's supposed rules.

See what I mean?


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Edited by figgusfiddus (08/12/07 02:03 PM)

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Re: Deja Vu [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7287762 -

Well, can we discuss ideas about what deja vu might be even though mikebarts' initial proposition has already been discredited?


How about the possibility that the human mind is so powerful that it can often border on precognition, or even creep along that border?  Perhaps somehow we subconsciously calculate spontaneous future events.  When the event actually occurs the calculation is fresh in our mind and gets called, seemingly becoming a memory..

I think it would be far fetched for this to apply in many of the deja vu situations I've had, involving people and places beyond my control and surveillance.


Quote:
The theory of the oscillating universe goes like this: What we once thought was The Big Bang was more likely A Big Bang. Measurements of background cosmic radiation suggest that our universe explodes, expands, then contracts to the point of exploding again. Hence, the oscillation.

In each explosion, all the dice are rolled. What we think of as the natural order of things is up for grabs in each cycle or oscillation; anything is possible. Each cycle from explosion to implosion is the life of a universe, not of the universe. Within a single universe, natural laws apply; across universes, they are reinvented.

theory recounted by physicist Stephen Hawking in his book, "A Brief History of Time"
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0SMG/is_n13_v13/ai_14357928


Quote:
Some cosmologists think that our universe has been cycling through an endless series of big bangs and big crunches. If so, it implies the universe is doomed to repeat the same thing over and over. A new study, however, suggests that with each big bang, the universe mostly forgets its past and starts anew.

Quote:
A theory known as loop quantum gravity (LQG) attempts to quantise gravity by suggesting that space-time is not as continuous as it seems. Instead, space-time is made of tiny interconnected loops, each only 10(power -35) metres in diameter, that form a smooth fabric much like a shirt's fabric is smooth...
http://space.newscientist.com/article/mg19025484.100-a-view-of-the-universe-before-the-big-bang.html


...
Bojowald developed a simple LQG model
...

The model showed that most, but not all, of the information about what came before the big bang gets irretrievably lost through the big bang transition. And in a perpetual cycle of big bangs and crunches, this information loss means no two universes are ever the same. Bojowald calls this "cosmic forgetfulness".

Cosmologist Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University says that Bojowald's model is right in principle. "It's important to lose some information, but not everything," he says.

http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn12178-universe-mostly-forgets-its-past-during-cosmic-rebirth.html


You can't deny speculation in a forum like this and you can't deny experiences of deja vu some degree of importance or interest.  And if you haven't read the above quotations, please take a moment to do so now :smirk:


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

Edited by elbisivni (08/12/07 02:48 PM)

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Re: Deja Vu [Re: mikebart101]
    #7287765 -

Here ya go...

It's in the nature of science to present and test new theories. That doesn't make them true. Most cosmologists currently believe the universe is expanding and accelerating. It's a mystery why and doesn't make intuitive sense, but that's what the evidence shows.

There will always be a minority of scientists who disagree with the majority. That's a good thing, but it doesn't mean they're right.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deja Vu [Re: Diploid]
    #7287811 -

I don't see why the big crunch/bang combination actually is the centerpiece of this argument in the first place, though.

You'd might as well make it arbitrary event, like 6:00am.

Rise and shine, campers, and don't forget your booties 'cause it's cooooold out there today!


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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