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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: spud]
    #2708368 -

Empirical data is known Epistemologically. The rational mind and senses prevail.
Spiritual data is known Gnostically. The transrational faculties, intuitive, eidetic and mystical prevail.

You seem to prefer Aristotelian based empirical inquiry. I am not non-scientific, but I prefer Platonic based mystical inquiry. The object of my understanding is Being - the Ground of Being, and this Transcendenz is not known via 'episteme,' but by 'gnosis.' Empiricism as I understand it apprehends the particulars of existence, not the essential 'One.'


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2708523 -

that is where we differ  :wink:

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #2708838 -

whoa markos, are you a trained precog?


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You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: truekimbo2]
    #2709619 -

Markos gnostic Bio (from his name link)
Counselor
--

This thread is very trippy, I especially enjoyed the visuals from the rippling of the universe when our alternate selves achieve some sort of metaphysical breakthrough such as death or some enlightenment who knows. Obviously you weren't trying to convince anyone of this as reality, it was an idea that came to you and damn if it isn't a creative one.

didn't mean to emberass you markos


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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.

Edited by sheister (05/22/04 09:39 AM)

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: NariusFractal]
    #2710087 -

Yes, yes...and I used to collect baseball cards when I was in Miss Sword's 2nd grade class. At one time I had 6 Roger Maris cards and I don't know how many Micky Mantle cards. I gave the whole collection away to Richard Sherman, the asthmatic kid down the hill. Dude...public domain doesn't necessarily have to mean 'in your face' does it?

Now I collect gargoyles and grotesques...and books that I can quote from on the Shroomery.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2710439 -

Taken from this webpage dicussing the scene in waking life when Julie Delpy and Ethan Hawke are talking about how you can go to sleep for just a few minutes, and have dreams that seem hours long, then using this theory that when you die, the 7 or so minutes your brain is still alive but the body is asleep, could seem like an eternal dream.


http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte484v/wakinglife/juliedelpyethanhawke.html

_________

Everything that we see, smell, hear, taste, and touch is just a construct of our minds. We do not see the actual flower that is in front of us. As the light rays bounce off the flower and hit our eyes, electrical signals carrying neural messages from the light are sent to our brains, which then use these messages to reconsruct the model of the flower in our minds. Therefore, what we are actually seeing is the model of the flower created by our mind. Our brains demonstrate this power of reconstructing models of reality every night when we go to sleep.

Ethan poses an interesting question: a question that requires us to use the power of our minds to think abstractly and envision limitless possibilities. Timothy Leary was actually excited about reaching that moment when his body would cease to function and his brain would have full control over his mind. He was actually quoted saying, "I'm looking forward to the most fascinating experience in life, which is dying." Leary believed that death contained infinite possibilities.

Anyone who's had a near-death experience will tell you that your life flashes before your eyes in those few instants before your demise (considering they can see that they are about to die). If this is true, who is to say that when you actually do die, your brain doesn't re-construct your entire life (a flashback if you will) in your mind within those few moments that it continues to function after your body ceases to? If this is true, then you could be living a life that you've already lived. This would also explain the phenomenon of deja vu. Thus, you would be thrown into an endless cycle of life and death. This is something interesting to think about.

I leave you with this quote from Leary:
"In the last decades of the twentieth century, scientists began to study the complexity within the human brain. Talk about Chaos! It turns out that the brain is a galactic network of a hundred billion neurons. Each neuron is an information system as complex as a mainframe computer. Each neuron is connected to ten thousand other neurons. Each of us is equipped with a universe of neurocomplexity that is inscrutable to our alphanumeric minds. This brain power is at once the most humiliating fact about our current ignorance..."


__________



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www.cosm.co.nz

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: bolie]
    #2712607 -

Thanks for the input. I loved Tim Leary - met him twice, 20 years apart and had him autograph my copy of The Psychedelic Experience both times. He chinned me when he saw his sig from 20 years earlier. I actually tried to give him a baggy of shrooms, but he declined fairly paranoically, though I couldn't blame him.

Leary remained firmly attached to psychophysical models of consciousness, and was himself pretty rooted in earthly centers of consciousness. He was a drinker and a tobacco addict, both of which root one in the body. I had one, really powerful OOBE back in 1973 after months of practicing astral projection exercises. It was not a fantasy or a lucid dream, and I've gone into detail elsewhere. That experience had a potent effect on changing the psychophysical assumptions that I had been operating under at the time. I was for years completely convinced that my conscious awareness had moved some 15 feet beyond my physical body, and taken a perspective that was still directional ('as if' I was in some kind of body) but when my 'gaze' was directed away from the silvery, shimmering astral perception of my neighborhood to my legs, I realized to my horror that (1) I was not in a physical body, and (2) I was somehow in two places at the same time. This fear-felt reaction catapulted my awareness in a sensation of rapid backward movment that ended in my physical body jacknifing on the bed, with a tremendous jolt in my solar plexus.

My occult and yogic models explained to me that my astral body, with my consciousness had discorporated from the physical  body, moved some 15 feet away (and was suspended some 10 feet above the Earth) and the Root Chakra fear response has automatically reintegrated the two sheaths. When one feels like one is falling, while 'falling' asleep, and one convulses at the solar plexus, it is taken as a short astral separation of just a few inches. Now, of course there are physiological correlates such an event, but it has been my decision over time to recognize the occult model pertaining to the astral sheath over the physiological explanation which is merely reductionistic.

The bottom line for me was then as it is now, that while our nervous system does create realities, and does perceive through senses and translate phenomenon, more essentially, we are 'receiving devices.' We can attune ourselves to the different levels of Reality (like the physical, astral, etheric and causal levels in yoga), and while we exist on all of these levels simultaneously, we are usually aware of the grossest level, and then only rarely the more subtle and spiritual levels. The VERY bottom line for me is that consciousness can and will exist Independently from the physical body. Like the movie Ghost, Patrick Swazy remained on a higher astral plane (while the evil people were dragged into lower astral Hells) in an astral [ghost] body, which sometimes 'phases' into the physical plane long enough for glimpses by frightened people. It wasn't until he fulfilled the role of one of the 'grateful dead,' that he was allowed to move into the Light of the causal body, and leave his still limited conception of himself as a body of appendages, rather than an unbounded 'body' of Light. Someone did their homework for that movie.

Further experiences over the years have blessed me with the Knowledge of Realizing a much less formless state of being (i.e., the mystical Body of Christ, the Gnostic Pleroma [Fullness]) of Unbearable Compassion, Ecstatic Love which is paradoxically an Eternal Moment, and Eternity, yet not the same thing as unending duration. It is the Ecstatic Moment which DOES NOT END. Go figure - it might take you there! :smile:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2713359 -

Wow great testimony to OBE and altered states of conciousness/being!!

You are obviously very wise, and of age, and some of us younger more 'free minded'(or crazy perhaps), , would take what you say with a grain.. but I know that it actually happened... I also think that other similar things happen to different people, and this alone is proof.. with or without science. Sorry to get off topic, but things like Deja Vu and OBE actually exist and go against what 'science' says , I can't say how, but markos touched on some of it doing with usign the nerves in ways other then we normally do.. I pesonally think ALL people have the 'nerves' to be 'psychic' , and I dont mean reading minds by that, I mean 'feeling' moods just by walking into an empty room... or 'knowing' someones true thoughts though they project other screens outwards... all you have to do is 'feel it'

Which I am still working on BTW : )

peace

Edited by 2Experimental (05/21/04 11:19 PM)

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: MOTH]
    #2714161 -

a link @serendip (lotta ineresting subject archived there...poke around):
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro98/202s98-paper2/Johnson2.html


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2714486 -

I endeavor to be a thoroughly Truthful individual, first to myself, and secondly to other. First to myself because I want to 'grok' Ultimate Reality,' which to me is synonymous with Truth, and I don't want to fool myself with fantasy, wishful thinking, hallucination, delusion, etc. THEN, when I am convinced of the accuracy of my perception/understanding, I can Truthfully relate that to others.

I have no expectation for other people to believe what I believe. My hope is that people will pretty much trust that I am a Truthful individual with no need to deceive others, impress others due to an infantile need for status, or be considered to be mentally ill. If others trust me, there is a much higher likelihood that others will learn something from me, which means I've been able to communicate Truth. My 'mission' is about Knowing the Truth, or what is Ultimately Real, and telling others,which translates into high morality on the social level.

Ever had a dream where you go back in time and try to warn people about something but they think you're crazy? I used to have dreams like this as a kid. Sometimes I've felt like the philosopher Diogenes who walked about by day with a lantern, looking for an honest man (a 'true' friend perhaps). At times I feel like Morpheus who Knows that there IS a Matrix, what it is, and how to escape it when most people don't even Know they're in the Matrix. So, like anyone who wakes up, even a little, such an individual is viewed as deceived, intentionally lying, crazy, or...wise.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2714629 -

ive always thought it was an unconsious connection to the akashic (sp?) records


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Work like you dont need the money.

Love like you never been hurt.

Dance like nobody is watching.

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: Vulture]
    #2714676 -

One time I was tripping on mushrooms and got an idea in my head. I've heard a lot of people say that humans only use about 5% of their brains (though i'm sure this isn't very accurate), so I was thinking that maybe the other 95% is the rest of the world. Maybe i'm the only one actually alive, and nothing actually exists outside of what I see and hear. Its pretty egotistical and probably not true. Needless to say, it blew my mind when i was tripping cause I actually thought it was real. That would explain deja vu though, maybe my whole life is planned out in my brain and once in a while I get a glimpse of part of my pre-planned life.


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peace sells but whos buyin?

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: shroom_muncher]
    #2714681 -

shroom_muncher said:
One time I was tripping on mushrooms and got an idea in my head. I've heard a lot of people say that humans only use about 5% of their brains (though i'm sure this isn't very accurate), so I was thinking that maybe the other 95% is the rest of the world. Maybe i'm the only one actually alive, and nothing actually exists outside of what I see and hear. Its pretty egotistical and probably not true. Needless to say, it blew my mind when i was tripping cause I actually thought it was real. That would explain deja vu though, maybe my whole life is planned out in my brain and once in a while I get a glimpse of part of my pre-planned life.


Whoa, that's crazy. I was thinking stuff like that too on my last trip.

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: shroom_muncher]
    #2714973 -

Check out the word 'solipcism.'


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: Vulture]
    #2715001 -

The Akashic Record, from the Indian idea of 'akash,' or 'aether,' the '5th element, is not necessarily the same thing as the Astral Plane of Reality. It is usually a reference to Edgar Cayce or The Theosophical Society. The Akashic Record has parallels in the Biblical idea of 'The Book of Life' wherein all things are recorded (and from which the deeds of men are judged) as well as Jung's 'racial' or Collective Unconscious. There is also a modern parapsychological notion that from the aspect of eternity (sub specie aeternitatis), past, present and future occur simultaneously. Apparently, some people with unusual experiences have been able to poke into this perspective, and come away with predictions - Nostradamas for example. Unlike the GOD-guided prophesies of the Biblical prophets (assuming they were accurate), Nostradamas' visions were somewhat arbitrary, idiosyncratic and imprecise, not to mention lacking in the concommitant ethical messages of the Biblical prophets.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: MOTH]
    #2715241 -

I think we subconciously know everything that is going to happen to us in our lifetimes and De ja vu is mearly the recognition of something that you already know is going to happen.


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"Daddy, what's the difference between ignorance and apathy?"

"Son, I don't know, and I don't care"

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: MOTH]
    #2717564 -

from: http://www.shaman-australis.com/%7Eclaude/dreams.html#deja_vu

D?j? Vu is the lowest state of Illusion
The phenomenon of d?j? vu (already seen) is the best example of a phenomenon of illusion which everybody has experienced. D?j? vu and cannabinoid illusions are identical except for the intensity and time duration. In a d?j? vu the brain superimposes two or more complex homologuous patterns which are thus experienced simultaneously. This establishes a perceptive link between two different zones of the stored time continuum of memory. D?j? vu and more intense illusions are philosophically and scientifcally exceedingly important phenomena because they demonstrate that consciousness arises when homologuous patterns are superimposed and thus compared. The informational content of those patterns is not what gives rise to consciousness but only the comparison process in itself. This is a major discovery which I realised in...1979! It explains a lot of things about the nature of consciousness and Reality.

http://www.shaman-australis.com/%7Eclaude/dreams.html <-- the whole page should be read it's quite intresting albeit a bit (for me) hard to understand.

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: blowback]
    #2717587 -

i second that blow back..

when we go to sleep our spirit is released
we then reunite with Lord of the gods ... Alpha and Omega and all between and around that et cetra

when in the source any answer can be given
flashes of the future/past can be given et cetra

we are able to do this in reality but we have to be in the ultimate consiousness which can be aquired through DEEP meditation....

so deja vu is merely a "psychic" ability that every human holds, but not many can control it at will

that would be in my o-pinny-on


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Im not loved because im worthy, Im loved because youre good - Matthew West (Good)

You never know, when and where the shrooms will grow.

Subaeruginosa Guide

Tinned Fish and Seafood Ratings

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: MOTH]
    #2748522 -

too lazy to read what everyone said

but as far as my understanding goes, from one of my esteemed neuroscience professors

Deja Vu is when you conciously realize the formation of a memory while recording it, thus giving you the illusion that "you've been here before"

and in response to the 5% thing, its total bullshit :smile:  But thats a cool theory :smile:

--Krem


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"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky

Edited by Kremlin (05/30/04 11:41 PM)

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Re: Where does "deja vu" come from? [Re: Kremlin]
    #2748649 -

I'm only writing on this thread so that now I have 5 threads at the top showing that I was the last person to post on May ?, 2004.  I'm trying to set a new Shroomery record.  :grin:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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