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Offlinelovelight
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what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality
    #3136984 - 09/15/04 12:56 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

DEJA VU
the term is french, meaning 'already seen'. it usually relates to that sense you get of having seen, heard or felt something before as that which you are seeing, hearing or feeling (or all of these) in the current moment.

I remember hearing somewhere the scientific explaination. That in order for us to see images around us, what is perceived has to go through certain processes before reaching the brain, and that when there is a slight glich, the image is broken and some parts delayed so that we think we are seeing it for the second time. but that only justifies the black cat in the Matrix movie.

what about when deja vu lasts for much longer, when deja vu is more about an abstract feeling of re-experiencing a whole situation??? i have only experienced it a few times, and much less lately. apparently it's most common with 15-25 yr olds. (im 20). but this happened to me once at a first class of a short course i took. the deja vu lasted for half an hour. it was mindblowing, a really unquestionable, deffinate, clear feeling. i even knew what was about to be said or done by particular people around me.

TRIPPING
what i find even more fascinating is the relationship between deja vu and tripping. the first time i had shrooms the deja vu feeling kept coming in sweeps over me throughout most of the experience, and when i got it, it related to everything. what i was seeing, smelling, and the way i was thinking about it. is this purely because you understand the connection with it all? at times it even felt like i was having deja vu about having deja vu!  :eek:

the other tripping/deja vu connection is with the death of the ego. that feeling of familiarity, like you have finally returned to your home - at least for a brief visit - during a trip (hehe pun intended)...  however, i think that this might have different implications and meanings than deja vu in normal waking consciousness.

SPIRITUALITY
while writing this thread i thought i'd get a bit of background info on the net and i instantly i came across something amazing to me!
"D?j? vu has been firmly associated with temporal-lobe epilepsy. Reportedly, d?j? vu can occur just prior to a temporal-lobe epileptic attack. People suffering an epileptic seizure of this kind can experience d?j? vu during the actual seizure activity or in the moments between convulsions."

i started a thread recently called "God on the Brain" which discussed new research that shows our religious beliefs to be a bodily function, having developed with evolution as a survival mechanism. it seems religion is inbuilt in the temporal lobes of the brain, so that some Temperal Lobe Epileptics have powerful mystical experiences and hallucinations during an epileptic fit. Here is the link for those interested.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...;o=&fpart=1

what connections do you draw if any????? and if u don't read the above thread, what deja vu experiences have you guys had in normal waking consciousness or while tripping and what does it mean to you? what do you think of any of this in general! i would LOVE to know your opinions oh wise ones!!!


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: lovelight]
    #3137057 - 09/15/04 01:15 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Smoked DMT = hella deja vu.

Desperate people living in spiritual wastelands tend to use things like feelings of deja vu and coincidences as fuel for their misguided journeys. It's just superstition.


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Offlinelovelight
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3137082 - 09/15/04 01:23 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Perhaps........ thanks!    :smile:


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: lovelight]
    #3137104 - 09/15/04 01:31 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

trust me I know everything.


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OfflineKremlin
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: lovelight]
    #3139166 - 09/15/04 04:40 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

In terms of the science part, Deja vu has somehwat of an explanation:

When you are perceiving, sometimes it gets registered before you are consciously aware of it, this is an error, and when you perceive it, you feel like you have seen it because its already been registered.  So the image doesnt break up or get held up from reaching the brain, it just gets registered in memory before we perceive it.

Or so thats the theory :smile:

--Krem


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"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: Kremlin]
    #3139342 - 09/15/04 05:33 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

what does it mean? maybe that since time is an illusion (everything basically happens at once) than it is in fact possible to percieve something before it happens in temporal time.

Or rather, at certain moments (especially on psychadelics) the go is dissolved slightly, and the ego is the part of you that percieves linear time. So when your tripping your like 'this has all happend before, or already' cuz in reality it has.

hmm.. hard to articulate

anyways i always have insane dejavu on shrooms


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Offlinesox24
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3139404 - 09/15/04 05:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
Smoked DMT = hella deja vu.

Desperate people living in spiritual wastelands tend to use things like feelings of deja vu and coincidences as fuel for their misguided journeys. It's just superstition.




I don't think anyone is misguided who believes in coincidences. Should we just believe what you tell us then?


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Offlinesox24
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: lovelight]
    #3139410 - 09/15/04 05:53 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

It's like you are so smart you are a fucking douche bag.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: lovelight]
    #3139427 - 09/15/04 06:00 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

a great enrichment is happenning.
more depth
more edges than is possible.
more smooth colored membranes than is possible
more selves than normal.
what is this depth if not the persitence of recent moments of experience not yet faded away layered still over the present moment.

entheogen slows down the fading of neural inputs to the brain.
(no doubt the shock of epilepsy does as well)

So in this rich milieu of input, both fresh and yet persisted,
one may easily be entranced by overlay combination effects, phantasms and constructs that normally can't be mustered up, but are effortlessly manifest under entheogen effects.

While entranced by the rich artifacts, one may not be attending the flow of reality but it remains a live feed to the brain.

Then surfacing from the overlay effects one emerges to a more thin and real moment and catches up.

(to me this is deja vue by essence.)

And if one resubmerges, one can predict what will come next, as one has slipped ever so slightly into the future (really the present) and then back into the present(which is really the enhanced past+present stoned state). This is the one that astonishes.

It goes with dreams and day dreams too.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: sox24]
    #3140403 - 09/15/04 08:59 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think anybody would deny the existence of coincidences.. and yes, you should just believe everything I say.


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: lovelight]
    #3140610 - 09/15/04 09:25 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

deja vu means you already experienced it, sometimes in a dream, sometimes in a past life, sometimes as a baby. Death is like tripping and babies are always tripping, so that can explain why tripping is so familiar even the first time you do it.


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Onlinedeff
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: Dark_Star]
    #3140641 - 09/15/04 09:30 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Or that it felt like you already did. Really, everything is within the one infinite moment, but our scanning consciousness must have overlapped and relayed back onto itself the experience prior to registering it as the 'now'. That's my view anywho :smile:


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: deff]
    #3141219 - 09/15/04 11:26 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Shit I know exactly what you mean, i've had the same feeling and forgot about it, thanks for reminding me.


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: lovelight]
    #3141246 - 09/15/04 11:32 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lovelight said:
i was having deja vu about having deja vu!




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Offlineangryjslice
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: lovelight]
    #3141266 - 09/15/04 11:37 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

i have deja vu all the time, and i firmly believe that i get the feeling because i have, at some point in the past, dreamed the exact situation that i am in at that moment.

a long term dream diary, and deja vu diary really cemented this as fact for me.

its all part of the subconcious processing of fractal event patterns.

~JSlice~


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Edited by angryjslice (09/15/04 11:38 PM)


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: angryjslice]
    #3141274 - 09/15/04 11:40 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

During my first acid trip I had deja vu so long and strong about what was currently happening and I remembered that I had dreamed it awhile back.


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Offlinelovelight
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: Dark_Star]
    #3145103 - 09/16/04 09:02 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

WOW!!!

it seems like a lot of people get deja vu when they have dreamt the situation before! i have never had that happen before, very interesting!
Thanks guys! keep up the fascinating replies...


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: lovelight]
    #3145510 - 09/16/04 10:36 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah it's pretty weird, esp when your you're not tripping when it happens.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: lovelight]
    #3145853 - 09/16/04 11:41 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Watching the summer's events unfold - war protests, an Olympics scoring scandal, numerous terror scares - some people may have felt that it was all very familiar, that they had somehow been through this before.

Yet psychologists say it is usually life's more mundane details - the click of a radiator, the play of the shadows on a tablecloth - that prompt that sudden and sometimes breathtaking sense of familiarity.

Advertisement

"The way the coffee cups were lined up on the table," said Gretchen Purcell, 24, a business consultant in the Washington area who felt this so strongly during a conference-call meeting last month that it made her laugh out loud. "The whole scene was so familiar I thought I knew what people were going to say before they said it. It was like I was in a movie I'd already seen."

French for just that ("already seen"), d?j? vu is the sort of fleeting, intimate experience that reveals itself more readily to novelists than to researchers. As recently as the 1990's, social scientists doing population surveys asked about it in the same breath as they inquired about poltergeists and contact with the dead.

But new research on memory has opened a promising window on the phenomenon, providing both possible explanations for the sensation and novel ways to create and measure it.

"It has been either ignored or considered too spooky or flaky for many scientists to touch," said Dr. Alan Brown, a psychologist at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, who reviews the history of the field in a new book, "The D?j? Vu Experience: Essays in Cognitive Psychology.'' "But it is real, and by bringing it into the lab we can at least begin to understand it."

In surveys, about two-thirds of adults report having had at least one d?j? vu experience, and the odd sensation seems to occur most often in people with lively, frequently stimulated imaginations. People who travel a lot are more likely to report the experiences than homebodies, for instance, and those with college or advanced degrees report having it more often than others, perhaps because they have encountered its sweet strangeness in the literary accounts of Proust and Tolstoy - or are more likely to rent the movie "Groundhog Day." Rates seem to peak in young adulthood and to fall off gradually through retirement age, when, Dr. Brown suggests, many people live daily routines that really are familiar.

A century ago, when Freud's theories dominated the field of psychiatry, analysts cast d?j? vu as evidence of unconscious conflict, the ego defending itself against upsetting erotic urges for a mother figure or other hidden desires. And for decades, doctors have reported that sensations of d?j? vu occasionally precede the seizures suffered by people with epilepsy. Overactive circuits in the temporal lobe, which can cause seizures, may inappropriately stimulate regions of the brain involved in detecting familiarity, some doctors say.

But Dr. Brown and others argue that it is not necessary to invoke hidden conflicts or unusual brain conditions to explain many cases of d?j? vu. Normal, healthy brain function suffices. For one thing, d?j? vu appears to be more common when people are exhausted or stressed, conditions that are known to cloud short- and long-term memory (and that may also accompany jamais vu, the opposite experience of staring at familiar words or objects and having no recollection of them).

Debbie O'Leary, 40, a writer in Bloomington, Ind., said that some years ago she felt sensations of d?j? vu while sick at home, as if her life had become a scratched record, with the same chorus repeating.

"It was literally like my brain was stuttering, like the same tape kept replaying the same thoughts, the same motions," as if time were stuck, she said. "I think it was the fatigue, the fever."

Psychologists have long known, too, that people register impressions and images well before they are aware of what they have seen. The brain sends visual signals through at least two circuits, which move from the retina through the brain to the visual cortex via different routes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/14/scienc...p;partner=MYWAY


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: what is DEJA VU??? relation to tripping and spirituality [Re: lovelight]
    #3145960 - 09/17/04 12:03 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

If it means a lot to you, to know others experience it then, count me in as i do at least weekly, without drugs.

When it happens, I like to do a fast tune out and and tune in while the door is open. Sometimes I can get future impressions out of them.


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