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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5444609 -

From the episode of South Park, if that is what scientologists believe.... I see some truth in the metaphor. It is basically showing how we are all being brainwashed by the media.

They show those guys locked up in a room to be shown an elaborate illusion of reality through television like brainwashing.

Seems pretty solid to me, take out the aliens and just view the metaphor.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: Akira]
    #6907684 -

I haven't read through this entire thread yet, but I have studied Scientology for some time (as well as many other philosophies, religions and subjects) and the first distinction to make is between the subject of Scientology, the Church of Scientology (CoS) and people who call themselves Scientologists (and there are even varying shades of being a Scientologist).

Many critics, however, exchange the 3 (CoS, Scientologist, Scientology) as if they were the same thing...(you know with statements like "Scientology Kills", and I am still baffled how a subject can kill someone...unless a large pile of books landed on their head or some such thing)

After that distinction is made, progress can be made.

Yes, there is ALOT of misinformation and disinformation as to what Scientology is, isn't and what is (and isn't) on the secret levels.
And to be honest, you won't *really" know unless you do them. You must come to your own conclusion, but that's just it...too many people in this crazy culture we live in accept other's opinions instead of actually doing the research themselves.

All that aside, I have found the data contained in Scientology to be quite fascinating. The majority of it is in books and recorded lectures. And the data I have gained from Scientology has made exploring on "trips" much more fascinating, revealing and overall enlightening.

If you have any specific questions, I will be more than happy to answer them. Remember, if you want to know about a subject, the best thing is to go to the source of that subject, not what someone else thinks about it...and that includes me as well.

Above all else, remember that *knowledge isn't bad and no person should ever prevent you from looking in any direction. If ANYONE is trying to prevent you from looking at something, that person has not so good intentions for you.

Good luck in your journeys!


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: Pulsating]
    #6911030 -

Scientology is for loons. A friend of mine went to a stress test with me. When he asked them about the homeless, they said "the homeless don't have a soul, we need to get rid of them" So yeah fuck those brainwashed heartless bastards.

The stress test was nonsense. Its supposed to measure the stressful energy in you body. All I did was slow down my breathing, and the needle drooped off the meter. They remind me of Christian scientists.


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #6911395 -

blewmeanie said:
Scientology is for loons. A friend of mine went to a stress test with me. When he asked them about the homeless, they said "the homeless don't have a soul, we need to get rid of them" So yeah fuck those brainwashed heartless bastards.

The stress test was nonsense. Its supposed to measure the stressful energy in you body. All I did was slow down my breathing, and the needle drooped off the meter. They remind me of Christian scientists.



So how many actual Scientology books, courses, or recorded lectures have you read/done/listened to?

I mean, I may be the odd one out here, but I like the people I consult about subjects to be somewhat qualified in what they are talking about.

And, as I said in my previous post, you have to differentiate between Scientology, Scientologists and the Church of Scientology. Otherwise you will make ridiculous posts like the one above.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: Pulsating]
    #6911429 -

Quote:
And, as I said in my previous post, you have to differentiate between Scientology, Scientologists and the Church of Scientology. Otherwise you will make ridiculous posts like the one above.



Well why don't you tell us the differences since you're at it?
Clear that up because those scientologists freak me up man.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6911644 -

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:
And, as I said in my previous post, you have to differentiate between Scientology, Scientologists and the Church of Scientology. Otherwise you will make ridiculous posts like the one above.



Well why don't you tell us the differences since you're at it?
Clear that up because those scientologists freak me up man.



I was hoping that simply mentioning that there was a difference would be enough, but a Scientologist (and there are many different types (staff members, independent, etc. etc.) is someone who utilizes Scientology principles and...*considers themseleves a Scientologist

The Church of Scientology is the organization whose purpose is to forward the group's purpose. (same with any other organization)

And Scientology is simply the body of data....which anyone with 2 brain cells will recognize as neither good nor bad...it's just a subject.

How many Scientologists have you met and what freaked you out about "them"?

Do I freak you out?


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

Edited by Jickey Mouse (05/13/07 11:47 PM)

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: Pulsating]
    #6911702 -

First of all your explanations are ambiguous... Scientology is just like any other religion... is like saying apples are just like the rest of the fruits.
This "neither good or bad" might work on the spiritual level but most obviously Scientology has effected on the material world where good and bad are a fact. It influences people's acts, feelings and thoughts, it has economic and politic effects, and so on. So yes, let me emphasize that it's important to know all that in order to make a lucid decision regarding Scientology.
And you don't freak me out because I don't know you so I couldn't tell. And anyways, that freak out thing was just a figure of speech, I though I made it clear enough.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: Pulsating]
    #6911721 -

But, to get back to the main question which started this thread...the fundamental idea of Scientology...

Scientology is a controversial and relatively new subject (why it's controversial we can cover elsewhere).

The basic idea of Scientology is that we are spiritual beings who inhabit bodies and we actually never die, but live multiple lifetimes. (In other words, we aren't bodies who "have souls" as other philosophies/religions claim, and that idea is just an inversion in order to confuse and further trap people. Surely you see how religion has been used to trap people on Earth for quite a long time)

Scientology was not invented, it is knowledge that has been rediscovered. Just as a biologist did not invent the cell, Ron Hubbard did not "invent" Scientology.

Scientology is very closely related in its principles of knowing to Eastern philosophies (Hinduism, Buddhism) as opposed to Western religions of blind faith and following/being flock of sheep. Scientologists in the Church won't say so, but Scientology and Christianity are at opposite ends of the spectrum which we can discuss if anyone is interested.

Scientology contains the basics of many areas of life and is an extremely simple subject as anyone who *actually looks at it and not what someone says about it* will quickly see.

It's a vast, yet amazingly simple subject, and if you ever wanted to know, you are selling yourself short if you just accept what a cartoon or news story or anonymous person on a message board says about a subject as fact without taking a look for yourself.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

Edited by Jickey Mouse (05/14/07 12:06 AM)

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: Pulsating]
    #6911744 -

Quote:
The basic idea of Scientology is that we are spiritual beings who inhabit bodies and we actually never die, but live multiple lifetimes. (In other words, we aren't bodies who "have souls"



Isn't that the same thing?
In which terms does the notion of spiritual being differs from the one of a soul... technically speaking.
Through souls I understand informed energy and awareness which never "dies"


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: Pulsating]
    #6911791 -

Jickey Mouse said:
The basic idea of Scientology is that we are spiritual beings who inhabit bodies and we actually never die, but live multiple lifetimes. (In other words, we aren't bodies who "have souls" as other philosophies/religions claim, and that idea is just an inversion in order to confuse and further trap people. Surely you see how religion has been used to trap people on Earth for quite a long time)



That is a basic idea of mystical philosophies throughout time. Why don't you talk about the ideas that set Scientology apart, like auditing, irrational fear and hatred of psychology and psychiatry, and of course Xenu and his Galactic Confederacy?


--------------------

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6911793 -

That's part of the trouble of language is multiple definitions of words. Especially words having to do with the spiritual nature of man.

The words "spirit", "soul", "spiritual being", etc. have had so many definitions, connotations and stigmas throughout man's history that Scientology uses a different word and a more precise definition of soul.

In Scientology, the word used is "thetan" (from Greek letter theta) and is defined as a "thing" which has "no mass, no motion, no wavelength, no location in space or in time."

In other words, the thetan (or spirit) is actually (and natively) outside this physical universe and is not born of it, but seemingly more of a stranger entrapped.

It has to be defined that way because all of our words in this universe deal with things in this universe...and that is part of the beauty of the trap (the physical universe) which we find ourselves.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6911859 -

Silversoul said:
Jickey Mouse said:
The basic idea of Scientology is that we are spiritual beings who inhabit bodies and we actually never die, but live multiple lifetimes. (In other words, we aren't bodies who "have souls" as other philosophies/religions claim, and that idea is just an inversion in order to confuse and further trap people. Surely you see how religion has been used to trap people on Earth for quite a long time)



That is a basic idea of mystical philosophies throughout time. Why don't you talk about the ideas that set Scientology apart, like auditing, irrational fear and hatred of psychology and psychiatry, and of course Xenu and his Galactic Confederacy?



Silversoul, I will talk about anything I am asked about and have knowledge of.

Auditing is simply asking the person exact questions which bring him/her to look at things from a different perspective. Nothing more, nothing less.

As far as irrational fear of psych subjects...well, I don't know. I, personally, don't have an irrational fear of those subjects, but I am pretty well researched when it comes to certain things and the psychiatric drug industry (in addition to the mainstream media, multi-national oil companies, etc.) is one of the tools being used to manipulate and control humanity into being nothing more than mindless robots.

As far as Xenu and the Galactic Confederacy, well, the only place I have seen mention of it is in anti-Scientology material in an attempt to discredit Scientology to people who have no knowledge of it. Although, if you really look at the story, it is quite interesting.

And if you looked into the actual materials of Scientology, there are things in the basic books that makes the Xenu/Galactic Confed. thing look like stuff you read a kid before bed.

You see, when you look out at the stars at night...think about how *no one* really knows where we are, how we got here or the history of the human race.

Mankind is fumbling in the dark and actually has a pretense of knowledge because...well, no one really knows.

But if you are happy to believe what you see on South Park as the truth...well, you will certainly have an interesting life.

What made you think I wouldn't talk about these things?


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: Pulsating]
    #6911966 -

Quote:
What made you think I wouldn't talk about these things?



I didn't say you wouldn't. I merely was not satisfied with you defining the basic idea of Scientology with terminology that fits just about every religion(and then trying to claim that that differentiates it from other religions). You then talk about religion being used to trap people, while advocating a religion(self-described as such, and with the tax-exempt status to prove it) that people give millions of dollars to each year because of their faith in its promises(I will respectfully refrain from calling them "empty promises"). Your description of Scientology as being the polar opposite of Christianity also shows a similar close-mindedness and ignorance towards Western religion that you claim we have towards Scientology.


--------------------

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6912052 -

:thumbup:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6912058 -

Silversoul said:
Quote:
What made you think I wouldn't talk about these things?



I didn't say you wouldn't.  I merely was not satisfied with you defining the basic idea of Scientology with terminology that fits just about every religion(and then trying to claim that that differentiates it from other religions).  You then talk about religion being used to trap people, while advocating a religion(self-described as such, and with the tax-exempt status to prove it) that people give millions of dollars to each year because of their faith in its promises(I will respectfully refrain from calling them "empty promises").  Your description of Scientology as being the polar opposite of Christianity also shows a similar close-mindedness and ignorance towards Western religion that you claim we have towards Scientology.



Time and space are illusions, so just because we are in separate locations doesn't mean that I don't see your intentions or spot the wavelength you exude.

I also like the way you ignore pretty much everything you were wondering about. Which is more proof you just wanted to spout off.

But, to the actual matters at hand, Christianity appeals to the effect side of the coin (victim) when embracing both Cause and Effect are essential to a happy existence, and that is what I meant by Scientology being much different from Christianity.

Spiritual data has been being used for aeons to entrap and enslave people. A brief and honest look at man's history will prove this up.

And I am not advocating Scientology...What I am advocating is that people actually look at what is there and not what someone tells them is there.

I have no closed-mindedness towards Western religions, but I don't think they work or provide real answers to life's mysteries or problems.

:thumbup: is damn right!



--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

Edited by Jickey Mouse (05/14/07 01:15 AM)

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: Akira]
    #6912911 -

to make money by exploiting peoples idocies and desires.

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: Pulsating]
    #6912914 -

whats your avatar about?

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: Akira]
    #6919859 -

I really don't even know that much about Scientology but I can guess what its about.

I'm sure its an organization that has drawn from a variety of wisdom traditions and psychological knowledge.  It probably has a whole lot of useful methods for overcoming negative mind states and making one happy and better able to cope with life.  This is a lot of what Buddhism is about today.  Look at Rosicrucian societies that are Christian and Hermetic based, they have a lot of good stuff in them.  Its all the same kinda deal.

Yeah sure you have to pay to access their resources but I'm sure it takes a lot of money to run their classes and organise and keep together all their data etc.

As far as Xenu and blah blah blah, oh well they have some allegorical stories that are written in a Sci Fi manner, what do you expect?  Most religions have allegorical stories that seem silly if taken literally.

Madonna got into Kaballah, Tom Cruise got into Scientology.  Same deal either way.  I'd be interested in learning about Scientology because I'm sure it contains a lot of useful methods that can be employed as long as one keeps their wits about them and retain a healthy scepticism.

Pulsating, where do you suggest one turns to learn about Scientology without having to pay any money?  :smile:

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: Amber_Glow]
    #6920166 -

Amber_Glow said:
I really don't even know that much about Scientology but I can guess what its about.

I'm sure its an organization that has drawn from a variety of wisdom traditions and psychological knowledge.  It probably has a whole lot of useful methods for overcoming negative mind states and making one happy and better able to cope with life.  This is a lot of what Buddhism is about today.  Look at Rosicrucian societies that are Christian and Hermetic based, they have a lot of good stuff in them.  Its all the same kinda deal.

Yeah sure you have to pay to access their resources but I'm sure it takes a lot of money to run their classes and organize and keep together all their data etc.

As far as Xenu and blah blah blah, oh well they have some allegorical stories that are written in a Sci Fi manner, what do you expect?  Most religions have allegorical stories that seem silly if taken literally.

Madonna got into Kaballah, Tom Cruise got into Scientology.  Same deal either way.  I'd be interested in learning about Scientology because I'm sure it contains a lot of useful methods that can be employed as long as one keeps their wits about them and retain a healthy scepticism.

Pulsating, where do you suggest one turns to learn about Scientology without having to pay any money?  :smile:




Fairly accurate synopsis you provided. I mentioned earlier that it is important to differentiate between certain things before one can move forward logically. Some here on this board are unable to do this, and sadly, it is their loss. Scientology is simply a body of data (neither good nor bad) and is distinct from the Church of Scientology and Scientologists.

The techniques involved in Scientology can be utilized in the privacy of one's home (as my wife and I do) and can bring about some very interesting states of mind/being...and it's free. Of course, you must acquire your books and materials, but a resourceful person can make this happen with relative in-expense.

There are 2 types of "gain" recognized in Scientology. Negative gain and positive gain. Negative gain is removing the "bad stuff" that we have done and has been done to us. Positive gain is enhancing one's native abilities as a spiritual being. Usually negative gain is handled first, but not always. There are techniques which bring about positive gain and the negative stuff to simply fall away.

In the early 80's after Ron Hubbard's death, there were quite a few Scientologists who left the Church because they felt the organization had fallen into the wrong hands. It was at this time that the prices were raised and various other things happened. Many people use the prices charged by the Church of Scientology to discredit the subject of Scientology itself. These are two unrelated issues.

Hubbard advised all Scientologists to be skeptical and *never* believe anything just because he (or anyone else) said it. To believe anything just because someone says it is a trap that has been pushed on humanity for too long and many people are still subject to it...you know, they read something on a website, or hear someone say it and it immediately becomes "truth". It's really quite sad, but even that person will have to come around to logic...no matter how long it takes.

Scientology is basically a collection of data which are common denominators to life's activities and it has the tools to unravel the mysteries we find around us. Scientology doesn't give answers really, but instead, gives the tools to find the answers which reside in our minds).

And this is why it is so rabidly and insistently attacked. Free people are harder to control. And those people who control the human race (see my thread on conspiracies) know exactly the gullibility of humans for believing and repeating things they hear without  acually researching it for themselves. Sadly, seeing something on TV has become "research". I am sure you can think of many instances of this happening, not just in regards to Scientology.

In a perfect world, everything would be free, but, alas, we have bodies and bodies must eat, sleep and do other "essential" things...so, money is a useful way of exchange in order to acquire those things one needs.

Just as we don't work for free (we trade our time and energy for money), so we trade our money for things we consider valuable to us. The pattern of an organization is amazingly similar to the pattern of a body and the "food" of an organization is money. No food and the body dies. No money and the organization dies.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: The Fundamental Idea of Scientology? [Re: Pulsating]
    #6920440 -

Quote:
Pulsating said:The techniques involved in Scientology can be utilized in the privacy of one's home (as my wife and I do) and can bring about some very interesting states of mind/being...and it's free. Of course, you must acquire your books and materials, but a resourceful person can make this happen with relative in-expense.



Where / how to acquire? What are some good books on the subject?

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