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 Kevii
Tadpole
Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 78
Loc: California
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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 Re: Solution to the Paradox of the Stone  [Re: Diploid]
#6726243 - 03/29/07 09:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Dictionary.com definition
om·nip·o·tent (ŏm-nĭp'ə-tənt) Pronunciation Key
adj. Having unlimited or universal power, authority, or force; all-powerful.
There you go. 
Therefore, God is orange juice.
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 Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Solution to the Paradox of the Stone [Re: Kevii]
#6726246 - 03/29/07 09:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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God is Tang! Mmmm...
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Kevii
Tadpole
Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 78
Loc: California
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Solution to the Paradox of the Stone [Re: vigilant_mind]
#6726308 - 03/29/07 09:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
vigilant_mind said:
Quote:
Can God make a rock so Big he can't pick it up?
In my opinion this shouldn't even be a debate. Asking "can God make a rock so big he can't pick it up?" is asking a contradictory statement, which, of course, violates the law of noncontradiction.
The question invokes an intrinsic possibility; a concept that is impossible in all times, in all dimensions, and to all agents. The stone question is analogous to asking "can God make a married bachelor?" Well, the concept doesn't even exist, because it can't exist! Omnipotence is the power to do all things except for that which implies contradiction.
Ideas that imply contradiction do not exist past the language barrier. A contradictory concept cannot exist in the world. To ask if "God can make a rock so big that He can't life it" is not even a question-- it is a trick. The question is merely words strewn together that carry no value due to their absolute contradiction.
The answer is here. Would be a much greater paradox if it didnt contradict itself though. And it deems no solid evidence against god by non-god believers.
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shroomydan
exshroomerite
Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
Loc: In the woods
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Re: Solution to the Paradox of the Stone [Re: tihkalpihkal]
#6733414 - 03/31/07 11:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
tihkalpihkal said:
actually that paradox is also discussed and answered in buddhism. The paradox is know as a koan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koan Just because the mouth can utter the phrase doesnt mean the phrase is reality.
Quote:
English-speaking non-Zen practitioners sometimes use kōan to refer to an unanswerable question or a meaningless statement. However, in Zen practice, a kōan is not meaningless, and teachers often do expect students to present an appropriate response when asked about a kōan. Even so, a kōan is not a riddle or a puzzle.[1] Appropriate responses to a kōan may vary according to circumstances; different teachers may demand different responses to a given kōan, and a fixed answer cannot be correct in every circumstance. One of the most common recorded comments by a teacher on a disciple's answer is, "Even though that is true, if you do not know it yourself it does you no good." The master is looking, not for an answer in a specific form, but for evidence that the disciple has grasped the practical use of the kōan in daily life, or in other words, has actually given up some previous attachment.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 16 days
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Re: Solution to the Paradox of the Stone [Re: shroomydan]
#6733439 - 03/31/07 11:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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This argument does not refute the existence of God, rather 'his' omnipotence. Since I'm more of an animatist than anything else, this appeals to me. There sure seems to be some kind of universal energy that permeates and constitutes all things, but a separate, concrete, all-powerful being? Come on. Maybe a demiurge.
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Karmatron
Kundalini Kid
Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Planet Zuyua
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: Solution to the Paradox of the Stone [Re: NiamhNyx]
#6733991 - 04/01/07 04:06 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Heyo dudes,
In my opinion, by claiming that the question is meaningless you have reduced the christian concept of God to the Hindu concept of Brahman.
Actually I like it that way, it's a good answer. But then i'm not a christian
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shroomydan
exshroomerite
Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
Loc: In the woods
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Re: Solution to the Paradox of the Stone [Re: Karmatron]
#6734367 - 04/01/07 09:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sorry it took me so long to get back to this, God has blessed me with a full life lately.
Rather than replying to individual objections, I will attempt to flesh out my argument to make the solution clearer.
There are three genera of paradox. The first is veridical. The Barber paradox is an example of a veridical (true) paradox. The barber paradox demonstrates the non-existence of the barber who shaves all and only those who do not shave themselves by first hypothesizing his existence and the then by deducing a contradiction from the hypothesis. It is a true paradox because such a barber does not and cannot exist.
The second kind of paradox is falsidical. A falsidical paradox appears to demonstrate the truth of a proposition by hypothesizing the proposition's denial and reducing the the hypothesis to absurdity, but the falsidical paradox is not sound. It does not demonstrate a truth because one of its implied premises is false. Quine uses the example of the pirate Frederick from the Pirates of Penzance, who at the age of 21 had celebrated only five birthdays. A falsidical paradox is generated if one does not know that Frederick was born on February 29th of a leap year. Quine also sites some of Zeno's paradoxes as examples of falsidical paradox.
The third type of paradox is antinomy. An antinomy is neither veridical nor falsidical, but rather demonstrates a need to change the way we think about things. Antinomies are paradoxes that reside at the edge of our conceptual ability. For Kant, antinomies demonstrated the the limits of pure reason. For the post-moderns and neo-pragmatists antinomies represent the limits of language.
Hopefully I will be able to write more on the logic of antinomies at a later date, but I'm out of time for now.
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc: 
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Re: Solution to the Paradox of the Stone [Re: shroomydan]
#6734775 - 04/01/07 12:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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The only thing that the paradox proves, is the inability of human language to expound on a concept such as god.
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spiritualemerg
Stranger
Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 366
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Re: Solution to the Paradox of the Stone [Re: shroomydan]
#6734833 - 04/01/07 01:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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shroomydan: The barber paradox demonstrates the non-existence of the barber who shaves all and only those who do not shave themselves by first hypothesizing his existence and the then by deducing a contradiction from the hypothesis. It is a true paradox because such a barber does not and cannot exist.
Unless the barber is a woman.
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~ Kindness is cheap. It's unkindness that always demands the highest price.
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