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OfflineSeussA
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Duality paradox
    #1182969 - 01/01/03 01:51 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I am going to try and present this idea logically, but it leads to an illogical conclusion, perhaps.  This is less religeon and more philosophy, which has never been my strong point.

Let us assume that our reality is defined by dualism.  Good cannot exist without evil.  Light cannot exist without darkness.  Dualism is the building block needed for something to be related in one way or another to something else.  Without dualism, by definition, everything would be the same... our observations lead us to believe that dualism exists... dualism is like a fractal... the more you split something apart, the more parts it has to split into.

If dualism does exist, then oneness must also exist.  Without oneness, there cannot be dualism... again by definition.  Here lies the paradox... oneness is the polar opposite of dualism... the 'void' from Genesis, everything and nothing.  Oneness allows no room for dualism, again by definition if oneness is to be nothing... yet if oneness is to also be everything, dualism must also exist.

Many people claim to have experienced oneness, either through drug use, or meditation, etc.  Not only are there many people, but the experience trancends both time and geography... the early indian shamans using peyote, to modern day monks using meditation, among a few.  Regardless of oneness existing or not, the human mind seems to have proven itself capable of experiencing a non-dualistic reality as well.

With all of this in mind, our reality exists as both dualism and oneness at the same time, wrapped in paradox.  Going out on a limb here... our consciousness of duality is what preserves the paradox and prevents the 'void' or 'lack of dualism' from being and yet continues to define the 'void' or 'lack of dualism' as well.

Words just don't do justice for what cannot be written... :frown: 


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Duality paradox [Re: Seuss]
    #1183039 - 01/01/03 02:30 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Good thoughts.

I think that Oneness is when duality unites, also known as love. Male united with female create the child, who is closest to Oneness. (This is not restricted to gender, though.)

I think Maynard portrayed life best in the lyric "finding beauty in the dissonance". :smile:

Here is a semi-relevant short story:

When God had made The Man, he made him out of that stuff that sung all the time and glittered all over. Then after that some angels got jealous and chopped him into millions of pieces, but he still glittered and hummed. So they beat him down to nothing but sparks but each little spark had a shine and a song. So they covered each one over with mud. And the lonesomeness in the sparks make them hunt for one another, but mud is deaf and dumb. 


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: Duality paradox [Re: Seuss]
    #1183703 - 01/01/03 10:21 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Toleration of contridictions keeps me sane.

Joshua


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Duality paradox [Re: Seuss]
    #1183958 - 01/02/03 04:33 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah..I think I know what you mean...I think. We're constantly creating dualities that do not fundamentally exist. I mean, we have to create them in order for them to exist. They don't exist independently of ourselves.
How to create or live inside the oneness, however, is something I haven't been able to do yet.


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OfflineRemy
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Re: Duality paradox [Re: Seuss]
    #1184196 - 01/02/03 06:58 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

This is the essence of Zen, Tao, etc. Reality is a paradox, a contradiction, balance. We live in a world where energy and matter meet. Where the Quantum Physical (world of matter) meets the Metaphysical (world of energy). Where space and time meet. All those exist, but trying to seperate them is like trying to seperate the moon from the earth. We must accept this paradox before we can reach further understanding, because everything has an opposite, and once we can see that there is another side, and thus a balance, we can go to the point of view of the balance (midground) and look outwards at the two (outside the box). This balance we can call agreement, and nobody will get anywhere without it.


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Offlineribbit
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Re: Duality paradox [Re: Seuss]
    #1184200 - 01/02/03 07:00 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

something to keep in mind is dimensions

lets say oneness is dimension A

we are in dimension B with duality

when reaching the point to exit B and go to A, it leaves room for both to exist without actually interacting with eachother. B is not A, A is not B, and both exist


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Duality paradox [Re: Remy]
    #1184224 - 01/02/03 07:13 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

We live in a world where energy and matter meet.

I want to live in a world where Shania Twain and I meet. (Who said, "Never the Twain shall meet?" Wasn't it Mark Twain?)


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineRemy
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Re: Duality paradox [Re: ribbit]
    #1184264 - 01/02/03 07:35 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

But all dimensions coexist in all planes of existence (dimensions). For instance oneness still exists in duality. You could call the point where oneness meets duality the third dimension (reality). We are living in a three dimensional existence. In the forth dimension, the third dimension still coexists and so on.


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Offline3eyedgod
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Re: Duality paradox [Re: Seuss]
    #1184754 - 01/02/03 10:32 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

i agree


My signature says that in a much more condensed fashion


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Duality paradox [Re: ribbit]
    #1184836 - 01/02/03 11:03 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

something to keep in mind is dimensions
lets say oneness is dimension A
we are in dimension B with duality



Wouldn't Oneness consist of every dimension conceivable?
United with Infinity, that's the way I look at Oneness.  :smile: 


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OfflineEarth_Droid
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Re: Duality paradox [Re: Seuss]
    #1184920 - 01/02/03 11:43 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

You did a great job of writing that, I am bad at expressing my thoughts into words. I understould your post though, and agree.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Duality paradox [Re: Adamist]
    #1185375 - 01/02/03 03:09 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Wouldn't Oneness consist of every dimension conceivable?

Imo- yes.  :tongue:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Anonymous

Post deleted by Administrator [Re: Murex]
    #1185392 - 01/02/03 03:20 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)



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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Duality paradox [Re: Aura]
    #1185416 - 01/02/03 03:30 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

that couldn't be tool inspired now, could it?

Nope, I cant even name a Tool song... I don't listen to music very often. It is simply a vane attempt to put into words what I sometimes experience when meditating.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offline3eyedgod
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Re: Duality paradox [Re: Seuss]
    #1185456 - 01/02/03 03:51 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

that couldn't be tool inspired now, could it?

Nope, I cant even name a Tool song... I don't listen to music very often. It is simply a vane attempt to put into words what I sometimes experience when meditating.




I think Aura's question was directed to Murex, as he is the one Aura replied to.


--------------------
Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Administrator [Re: Seuss]
    #1185585 - 01/02/03 05:07 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)



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OfflineMurex
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Re: Duality paradox [Re: Aura]
    #1185670 - 01/02/03 06:01 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

What I said?  :confused:

All I said was 'yes'.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Duality paradox [Re: Murex]
    #1185679 - 01/02/03 06:05 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Schism.


--------------------
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Anonymous

Post deleted by Administrator [Re: Adamist]
    #1185688 - 01/02/03 06:07 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)



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OfflineMurex
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Re: Duality paradox [Re: Aura]
    #1185703 - 01/02/03 06:12 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I'm confused.  :blush:

All I said was 'yes'. 


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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