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InvisibleSwami
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Posts: 15,413
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S&P Paradoxes
    #4055363 - 04/14/05 03:36 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

"We are all one, but I still hate you!"

"The only time is now, even though I am still simmering about how you slighted me 3 years ago."


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Posts: 3,546
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Swami]
    #4055369 - 04/14/05 03:37 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

:lol:

Isn't "one" the loneliest number according to that one song (forget the name)? ~Depressing.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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OfflineGomp
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Swami]
    #4055384 - 04/14/05 03:40 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

"... as now is now, you are watching your hands now, and taking that shower now, you were even born now ..."


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4055429 - 04/14/05 03:48 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

The song is "One" by the Three Dog Night - probably 1968.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Offlinetrinity7
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Gomp]
    #4055433 - 04/14/05 03:49 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

...according to Filter. The song was in the X File movie.

Hey Swami, you?re smart aren?t you ? So are you trying to tease us or what ?
Of course these paradoxes only occur if you confuse the levels of reality, whenever you mix the absolute with the relative.

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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: trinity7]
    #4055487 - 04/14/05 03:58 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

/sigh

Hear we go again..

The absolute what? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

Nothing is absolute with the exception of how we percieve it to be such. The absolute is but relative, anything absolute is a contrived concept created by man.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Swami]
    #4055510 - 04/14/05 04:02 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

What did the Buddhist say to the hot dog vendor?


--------------------

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Offlinetrinity7
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Silversoul]
    #4055561 - 04/14/05 04:10 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

@psychoactice: The absolute IS while the relative comes and goes.

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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Silversoul]
    #4055634 - 04/14/05 04:23 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
What did the Buddhist say to the hot dog vendor?




give me the money, bitch, before i kill you and your entire family.


that right?


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: automan]
    #4055640 - 04/14/05 04:26 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

No, but close enough.


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Swami]
    #4055648 - 04/14/05 04:27 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
"We are all one, but I still hate you!"

"The only time is now, even though I am still simmering about how you slighted me 3 years ago."




Yeah, I noticed. :sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Swami]
    #4055655 - 04/14/05 04:29 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.  :rolleyes:

Or to elaborate:

Human beings are paradoxical and hypocritical by nature. This is not something limited to S+P, nor is it something limited to certain members of S+P.

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OfflineGomp
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Silversoul]
    #4055687 - 04/14/05 04:37 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
What did the Buddhist say to the hot dog vendor?




Make me one with
everything...


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Silversoul]
    #4055695 - 04/14/05 04:39 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
What did the Buddhist say to the hot dog vendor?




Mustard


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Gomp]
    #4055698 - 04/14/05 04:40 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
What did the Buddhist say to the hot dog vendor?




Make me one with
everything...



:thumbup:


--------------------

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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: trinity7]
    #4055706 - 04/14/05 04:42 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Nah, our concept of the absolute is why the relative exists, nothing more. All our absolutions are relative; absolution is an ideal as much as is perfection, and love... it's different to the observer.

It's our relative concept of what is, that defines absolute.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Offlinetrinity7
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4055778 - 04/14/05 05:10 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
All our absolutions are relative; absolution is an ideal as much as is perfection, and love... it's different to the observer.





I beg to differ: the absolute appears when the observer subsides.

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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: trinity7]
    #4055794 - 04/14/05 05:13 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, please show me an example of someone who stops observing... so absolution occurs when we are braindead or cut ourselves off from the external world? Show me someone who is capable of doing such, and what good it has done them.

If the absolute existed, their'd be no need to have this discussion, as it would be absolutely known, without any form of conjecture in way of its interpretation... mankind knows absolution like he knows god... he has faith in it, yet can't prove it. As I've looked for absolution beyond interpretation, and have yet to find it. Does it exist? :shrug: have faith... :wink:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Offlinetrinity7
Qie Lan
Registered: 09/25/04
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4055842 - 04/14/05 05:30 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Nah, going braindead is not necessary. The mind just stops, it can?t grasp this anyhow.
It?s not about someone who stops observing, it?s about that `someone` disappearing. Or more precisely: about realising that `someone`has never been there in the first place.

P.S. No, I?m not consuming anything right now.
Writing about this is hard, somehow language doesn?t seem to be designed to describe it.

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Gomp]
    #4055849 - 04/14/05 05:32 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
What did the Buddhist say to the hot dog vendor?




Make me one with
everything...




OMG! That's so funny! :grin:


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #4055903 - 04/14/05 05:58 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Human beings are paradoxical and hypocritical by nature. This is not something limited to S+P, nor is it something limited to certain members of S+P.

As I never claimed to believe that we are all one, I am free to hate others.  :heart:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: trinity7]
    #4055955 - 04/14/05 06:11 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

If we can't describe a form of absolution, and it's not readily tangible (or at all for that matter), what good does it do for any of us to question what we are incapable of grasping?


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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OfflineCeeThruMeer
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Gomp]
    #4056832 - 04/14/05 10:29 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
What did the Buddhist say to the hot dog vendor?




Make me one with
everything...


and as my mom elaborated one day

'The Buddhist then proceeds to hand the Vendor a $20 bill to pay for the hot dog. The vendor readily takes the money, and hands the Buddhist his hot dog. The Buddhist waits for a moment and then asks, "Excuse me, may I have my change?"... The Vendor looks at him and replies, "Change comes from within."'


--------------------
"my old friend told me
to do well always
set your sails, open
ride your waves, flowing
just relax, sober
leave you past, it's over
bind two hands, stronger
my soul waits, forward" - Arjun and Guardians

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Swami]
    #4056858 - 04/14/05 10:36 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

the whole universe is a paradox. get over it.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Swami]
    #4056875 - 04/14/05 10:39 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
"We are all one, but I still hate you!"





That is not a contradiction.

Look at how many people in this world, hate parts of themselves and hate things about others.

They can come to intellectualize the realization or have an epiphany of our oneness is spirit and origin and even still, if they choose to hate parts of the micro versions what are they going to care about hating parts of the macro version?

Your comment was made on the assumption that people who have realized the interconnectedness of all things on the energy/spirit level love everything about themselves, life and others. That's not the same thing. :wink:

Mastering 24/7 love for all is another ball game from realizing interconnectedness.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

Edited by gettinjiggywithit (04/14/05 11:08 PM)

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Offlineegghead1
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4057534 - 04/15/05 01:46 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Thats not so, they go hand in hand.

Unconditional Love is the gateway to realizing interconnectedness. Without unconditional love, that realization is impossible.


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: egghead1]
    #4057917 - 04/15/05 07:24 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

egghead1 said:
Thats not so, they go hand in hand.

Unconditional Love is the gateway to realizing interconnectedness. Without unconditional love, that realization is impossible.




Yes yes yes! Unconditional love is not about liking each and every act or every part of your or anothers personality structure. It is realizing that beneath that structure, which is not the totality of what we are, we are all one and that oneness is pure love. Your little boy or girl may act "bad " one day but you don't equate their actions with who they are. You see beneath to the essence of divinity within them and you love them unconditionally. Yet you can still work to correct their "bad" behavior. Like hating the sin and loving the sinner. These are words that if lived by and not just mouthed can change all the world, but more important ourselves. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineGomp
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: CeeThruMeer]
    #4057946 - 04/15/05 07:41 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CeeThruMeer said:
Quote:

Gomp said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
What did the Buddhist say to the hot dog vendor?




Make me one with
everything...


and as my mom elaborated one day

'The Buddhist then proceeds to hand the Vendor a $20 bill to pay for the hot dog. The vendor readily takes the money, and hands the Buddhist his hot dog. The Buddhist waits for a moment and then asks, "Excuse me, may I have my change?"... The Vendor looks at him and replies, "Change comes from within."'




Hehe, that is cool! ...  just heard it like this (same shit different asshole :P): The Buddhist then proceeds to hand the Vendor a $20 bill to pay for the hot dog. The vendor readily takes the money, and hands the Buddhist his hot dog. The Buddhist thank the Vendor, and turn around to walk ... surprising the Vendor, whom asks, "what about your change?"
The Buddhist looks at him and replies "Change comes from within."

:sun:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Swami]
    #4058126 - 04/15/05 09:25 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
"We are all one, but I still hate you!"

"The only time is now, even though I am still simmering about how you slighted me 3 years ago."




What Swami proposed is rather an assumption of a paradox than a paradox itself. The real paradox is to experience ourselves subjectively while claiming we are all one. I don't see how "I hate you" is relevant... Swami thinks it's a paradox because if you hate someone and we are all one you end up hating yourself. Only a being who has achieved Universal Consciousness, Christ Consciousness, God-Realization or Self-Realization can truly know the meaning of oneness ("we are all one").

Care to elaborate on your second "paradox"?

Edited by Delusion_of_Self (04/15/05 04:54 PM)

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4058731 - 04/15/05 12:07 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Care to elaborate on your second "paradox"?

Those that have achieved oneness have access to "my" mind and need no explanation. Have one of those "others" elaborate for those of "you" still outside the circle.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Swami]
    #4058819 - 04/15/05 12:30 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Like you are outside of any circle swami. If you were, there would be no reason or point for you to come here. Here at S&P we connect with each other through channels of communication. Be it to teach, learn or relate via making connections, the ability to do so is there. We have to have the ability to connect and be connected to do this. It's not rocket science.

There is nothing mystifying about oneness realization. To realize we have the ability to make heart or mind connections with others and transfer information through channels that connect us is not a big deal. To realize we can relate to others because we are related o each other is not a big deal.

Hate anything all you want too. You can only do that because of your ability to relate external people, acts, things and experiences with an internal emotion. All we can hate are illusions that fade anyway.

Hate someone and then they die. Now what? One less person to hate. Currently 2.6 are born for every one that dies. More people to hate. Yeah!

What is so smart about choosing to be in a state of hate anyway? It feels like crap which makes it self punishing and that's a form of masochism.

We can live in a world of preferences and eliminate the reasons to be in hate. We can live in a continuum of moving towards what we prefer and it's so much nicer.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Swami]
    #4058884 - 04/15/05 12:45 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Human beings are paradoxical and hypocritical by nature. This is not something limited to S+P, nor is it something limited to certain members of S+P.

As I never claimed to believe that we are all one, I am free to hate others.  :heart:




Your world is as you create it, if you want hate to be present in your life feel free to except it, i try and not waste my time with that though, yet i accept other people acceptence of it.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4058890 - 04/15/05 12:46 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I hate no one. I just find it amusing that someone would get angry with me for questioning their "We are all one," comment. The irony is always so over-the-top with many "spiritual" types. Kind of like religious wars: "Love one another, dammit! Or I will have to kill you."


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Swami]
    #4058926 - 04/15/05 12:53 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I hear ya! :lol: Reminds me of the why is it thread I did where I asked why it is, it takes an ego to tell people you have no ego. It is funny stuff!


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Swami]
    #4058934 - 04/15/05 12:54 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Good Swami, I'm glad to hear that. I think it's sad rather than amusing that we tend to get so defensive about our beliefs (some of us). Maybe we all do from time to time. I see your point, and it doesn't change the feeling for me that we really are all one. I just don't worry if you don't agree. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (04/15/05 12:55 PM)

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Swami]
    #4059319 - 04/15/05 02:42 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Care to elaborate on your second "paradox"?

Those that have achieved oneness have access to "my" mind and need no explanation. Have one of those "others" elaborate for those of "you" still outside the circle.




Why do you bail out in such a way? I'm not playing any games with you. I shared my perspective. Could you share yours? -- You were the one to start the thread in the first place...if no discussion is going to take place then what's the point?


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4059359 - 04/15/05 02:52 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Why do you bail out in such a way? I'm not playing any games with you.

You're not? You sincerely do not know the difference between the present and the past?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
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Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Swami]
    #4059400 - 04/15/05 02:59 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Do you know the difference between elaborating on a point and asking back questions?


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Swami]
    #4059414 - 04/15/05 03:03 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

what part of the circle would i be under if you dont mind making the assumption?

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Delusion_of_Self]
    #4059985 - 04/15/05 05:23 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Well if you do not understand "time", then I cannot explain it further.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineDelusion_of_Self
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 230
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
Re: S&P Paradoxes [Re: Swami]
    #4060002 - 04/15/05 05:26 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Well if you do not understand "time", then I cannot explain it further.




Since you can't elaborate on your point, then your point is pointless.


--------------------
"It is never a question of belief; the only scientific attitude one can take on any subject is whether it is true. The law of gravitation worked as efficiently before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be fairly chaotic if its laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief." -- Sri Yukteswar

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