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Offlineseeker
Curator ofBarbaricRefinery

Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 128
Loc: between Here and There
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: Did you find God? Did you find anything? [Re: Zahid]
    #588398 - 03/24/02 08:55 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

...and your building a philosophy based on a thousands of years old slave mentality that is not required in society based on free will.

You are aware that Christianity, Islam, and countless other religions have all been used at one point or another to subdue thier culture's slave class, right? If I recall correctly, under Islamic law your children were granted citizenship and freedom if you accepted Islam, but you got to stay a slave. Under the Christians it was "pray or be shot". Either way it was not much of a choice.

You pointed out that Islam is once again growing steadily, which is true, but you either did not take into cosideration, or did not feel it relevant to mention that in most cases, once a nations population becomes majority Muslim they tend to empliment religious law making Islam a requirement. In my book that equals "pray or be shot", and does not lend itself to choice and willing acceptance.

You say that the connection between our world and God is only that of created and creator. I am an artist my self, and have many pieces that I would say I created and I do feel a connection to them, but that connection comes because the piece reflects my emotions, my thoughts, or my world, and in that sense I and the piece are one in the same, and on a grander scale I and the piece are built from the same matirials as is everything else in this world. So, the connection exists weather I will it or not.

If anyone chooses to go through life believing themselves a slave, that is their choice as long as they do so with eye wide open.

Maybe I'm just taken in by the abstract idea of free will and all that jive, but I walk my path with both ears and eyes wide, brother.


--------------------
In a state of anarchy every individual is their own kingdom.

Thou art God (but so am i :wink:)


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OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
Re: Did you find God? Did you find anything? [Re: seeker]
    #588510 - 03/24/02 11:07 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

While the word slave is one of the many words used to describe a believer, it's not used in a sense that you're thinking of. We (Muslims) are all slaves of God, only not in the sense that most people think of; our reward for working for our Lord for free in this life is eternity in Paradise. When the word slave is used in Islam, it generally means believer.

You don't understand what the khalifah (the Islamic state ran under Shari'ah) means to a Muslim. There is no existing Islamic state today; it was destroyed 78 years ago. The Talibaan did a poor job at establishing a successful state under Shari'ah, but this was due to the fact that political strife was combined with the movement to make the fundamentalist Talibaan, in an already war-torn nation. Not once did the Talibaan claim to have established the khalifah. Islam is not forced on to people by the sword (or gun). Islam is tolerant of other faiths. In fact, even in Afghanistan the Talibaan allowed a few Jewish and Christian Afghans practice their religion. There is no nation today that is ran under Islamic law. Nearly all of the Arab and Muslim regimes are corrupt in some way, which also fuels extremism because America supports many of these regimes for obvious reasons. The Muslim world used to be in one, great empire, but the crusades destroyed that.

I walk the path with both ears pointed and both eyes open too, friend.


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Edited by Zahid (03/24/02 11:11 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Did you find God? Did you find anything? [Re: Sclorch]
    #588553 - 03/25/02 12:17 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, oh Sclorch, I believe, I acknowledge that you are my God, the only God and I shall
have no other Gods before you (or after you)...

(bow, grovel, kiss the earth)











Now can I have my harem of virgins?




Pleeeeeeease?


Edited by evolving (03/25/02 12:21 PM)


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Did you find God? Did you find anything? [Re: ]
    #588601 - 03/25/02 01:48 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

slave n- 1: a person held in servitude as the chattel of another 2: a person who has lost control of himself and is dominated by something or someone 3: a mechanical device (as the typewriter unit of a computer) that is directly responsive to another 4: DRUDGE, TOILER

When the word "slave" is used by everyone else, it generally means... well, slave (see above) a.k.a. sucker.
Well, I didn't say slave exactly, but.....
Sure, I'll let you be a mindless cog in the machinery of this world Zahid. Man, you are a dumbass to take me up on my offer... you know, the one about you "voluntarily" being my slave during your lifetime in exchange for your reward of an "eternity in paradise". HA! I guess you didn't know I had a sense of humor.

evolving-
Thanks for your support, you can have Zahid's harem now, because he won't be getting it anyways. They should arrive on your doorstep in the next week. Have fun!


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineTannis
ZoneTrooper
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
Re: Did you find God? Did you find anything? [Re: Tannis]
    #588815 - 03/25/02 09:32 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I purposely stayed away from this thread to see how many varied responses it would get.
I think we had a mix of questions and views about what shrooming does. It seems to depend on the individual person and their particular beliefs.
For me, I find God in my sensitivities and in helping people and accepting myself. God seems to be the reason or glue that keeps me together......but the shroom trip separates me from what I view as God.
Others have stated that they found God on the trip.
Is this the same thing? Or is it two different experiences like my original question:

Is the mushroom experience, an experience all to itself or is it the same experience gained through spirituality or religion?

It seems that different people answer this question differently and have different experiences.

With that is mine how about another question:

Since different people react differently to a shroom trip----is the experience an individual one? Its what you're made of and what you believe that steers the trip? Or-----is the mushroom trying to communicate as some have said?


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OfflineBBin
BlueOvertoneStorm

Registered: 05/01/99
Posts: 455
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Did you find God? Did you find anything? [Re: Zahid]
    #588945 - 03/25/02 01:41 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

...why do people always turn a conversation on god and spirituality into a discussion on religion and 'thruth'?...


--------------------
Thought is born blind but Mind knows what is Seeing


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OfflineLethalDoseofLife
Stranger

Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 6
Loc: New Jersey
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
Re: Did you find God? Did you find anything? [Re: Tannis]
    #588957 - 03/25/02 01:52 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

It seems as though some were trying to post a message/belief/theory/argument that was meant to broaden the range of thoughts and beliefs, others were merely trying to take a personal jab by mocking those who didn't go along with the flow of his/her own beliefs. Granted, this is a message board meant for such postings. But if you really wanted an educational discussion that "enlightened" you and the readers, then you should have interjected your views along the way. Because of your absence of intervention, this discussion only provides the difference between figures of speech and literal dictionary references.


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I'm not the Begining, but I will be the End.
Death is but a doorway, time is but a window, I'll be back.


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OfflineBBin
BlueOvertoneStorm

Registered: 05/01/99
Posts: 455
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Did you find God? Did you find anything? [Re: Tannis]
    #588959 - 03/25/02 01:57 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

what i feel is, if you are spiritually inclined (or awakened) you will have spiritual trips. If you are asleep and partaking of the mushroom for strictly recreational reasons, you will have recreational trips, but i do feel that in that case the mushroom can help to awaken your spiritual side. I do believe the mushroom has something to teach us and is communicating to us through spirit, but i also feel that in order to receive you must be ready & able to. The mind can garble any transmission.
Honestly, i dont really see the relevant differences in your question. The mushroom experience is any and all experience mankind as a whole is able to experience. Not just this or that, but both and that other one too!


--------------------
Thought is born blind but Mind knows what is Seeing


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OfflineTannis
ZoneTrooper
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
Re: Did you find God? Did you find anything? [Re: BBin]
    #589006 - 03/25/02 03:33 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Let's see if I can restate the questions:

The original questions had to do with whether or not the "mushroom experience" was the same or something different than what we have come to understand as spirituality......

The most recent questions (in response to the posts) are:
Since many people "found God" or something spiritual to them personally, is the "mushroom trip" a part of that journey to fulfilment
OR
is the mushroom itself trying to enlighten as many people believe?

One question asks if the trip is a means to spirituality and the other question suggests that the mushroom is part of a greater plan that is being imparted to mankind.


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OfflineTannis
ZoneTrooper
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
Re: Did you find God? Did you find anything? [Re: LethalDoseofLife]
    #589013 - 03/25/02 03:41 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

My absence had a purpose. I had hoped that many different views would be shared so that we could look back over the posts and see any similarities between the descriptions of trips and religious beliefs.
Shrooms are often spoken of as sacred, or people say that they are afraid to trip after a bad experience, or people talk about using the mushroom with respect. Shrooms are in some sense "worshiped" by users much like and with descriptions that are similar to descriptions used to explain one's feelings about "God". Its something to think about.....


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Did you find God? Did you find anything? [Re: Tannis]
    #589063 - 03/25/02 04:58 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

If you think mushrooms are worshipped, go to the Ayahuasca board and tell them that "The Brew" isn't sacred and you will get crucified. Even when I pointed out that "The Brew" wasn't even a specific formula, but could contain thousands of permutations (varying plants and admixtures), it made no difference. They spoke of the "naturalness" of it while using a hydrochloric extraction technique never seen in the jungles.

They will also tell you that "The Brew" has a "plan" for the partaker - whatever...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Did you find God? Did you find anything? [Re: Swami]
    #589160 - 03/25/02 06:56 PM (19 years, 8 months ago)

Like the organic food stores that sell "All Natural Herbal Supplements" that boast modern methods of extraction. I love getting into arguments with those people, hehe.

I don't know if I "found" anything, but I definitely experienced some weird shit. And sure, I "saw" and felt "things" that could be interpreted as being some divine force....
But then this "divine force" "magically" disappears after the drug wears off. So, your mindset going into the trip is going to be the most significant influence on the interpretation of your experience. Sure, there were a few times where I thought I found God.... but then I tripped again with a different mindset (these were sessions years apart) and I don't interpret this as God. Yeah, I see patterns of "energy", but just because a pattern exists doesn't mean that everything is a pattern as yet unrecognized. It would make sense on some levels if this reality were based on some extremely complex formula.... but this just seems like a science pipe dream, besides, Heisenberg fucked all that up (thank "god").

Someone said something about the replies in this post straying off topic: Well, I tend not to THINK in happy, little quantums of thought. To me, everything is so interconnected that talk regarding the constancy of the speed of light can be quite pertinent to the original topic of "Why did my grandmother spontaneously combust?"


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineTannis
ZoneTrooper
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
Re: Did you find God? Did you find anything? [Re: Sclorch]
    #589749 - 03/26/02 08:27 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

You really said a lot in that post......!


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OfflineLethalDoseofLife
Stranger

Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 6
Loc: New Jersey
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
Re: Did you find God? Did you find anything? [Re: Tannis]
    #589783 - 03/26/02 10:15 AM (19 years, 8 months ago)

I'd have to agree that the mindset going into an experience, will dictate the emotions and thoughts that ensue. I've had moments of clarity that would explain the universe and all its wonders, then in the instant it came, it left with a hurried confusion that left the mind stranded and frustrated.
Someone posted in another board that thoughts/behaviors/experiences can be looked at as factors in an equation to determine ones actions and further thoughts. With the factors of a previous "experience" and other normal everyday life experiences. Reproducing a trip with the same enlightenment/message as a previous one will be next to impossible. Although similar experiences are possible, I'd bet that the situation and setting would be different. The same that 2+4=6 and 2x3=6, the same point of view can be taken that way.
I'm welcome to argument or (black)light on this.


--------------------
I'm not the Begining, but I will be the End.
Death is but a doorway, time is but a window, I'll be back.


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