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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
    #5634206 -

Really? A dogs mind creates the sun?


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
    #5634224 -

What is your working definition of mind?


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I have considered such matters.

SIKE

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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Cherk]
    #5634261 -

That which is empty in essence and cogzniant in nature.


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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Icelander]
    #5634287 -

The dog has a mind in proportion to its energy, and has energy in proportion to its mass, so its mmind is limited ti how much it can effect the human dimension So it works the other way around also. nothing exists from its own side. Remember interdependence.


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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
    #5634314 -

The dog has a mind in proportion to its energy

Aren't you saying the dogs mind is energy?

This gets into an area of pure speculation for me at least. I would rather work with techniques that give me more joy and power in my life and I can think about nothing :grin: on my coffee break. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Icelander]
    #5634346 -

No im sayin that they are totally interdepenent. The cognizant aspect of the mind can either result in the manifetstation of karma, or the manifetstation of wisdom. Its capacity to influence its reality however is determined by its capacity to manifest energy through its cognizant aspect, when engagded in discursive thought, gets trapped in duality, which manifests the potentiality of our karmic vision. Hence why a dog is a limited speicies, and would find it diffcult to realize the nature of mind.


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Edited by Sinbad (05/15/06 09:18 PM)

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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
    #5634367 -

I couldn't prove it one way or the other. It's like asking, "is there a God?" How does one prove such a thing? :confused:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Icelander]
    #5636630 -

Im talking about our three gates, body speech and mind, and how they function in relation to our concepts of "reality". This can be discovered easily through observation.


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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
    #5636669 -

One thing must be understood. I am not discussing particle physcis here...it is not science, but a philosophical paragigm, that is rooted in the traditions of Central America, but that has been modified to be a model for my practice. Discussing the true nature of personal power is difficult because there can be many points of view. Sinbad, for example, has been influenced by Buddhist tradition more than I, so his concepts are different from mine. One cannot define the true nature of a concept that is not rooted in science. One can only choose a model that works for them. I presented my model...that doesn't mean that I possess the only model that can work. In other words...quit arguing...you are all potentially right. In the end, one cannot describe the indescribable....like the blind men searching for the true nature of an elephant...each of us can only touch a small part of the whole.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5636763 -

I agree to that. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5636917 -

Do away with all descriptions and models! Traditions are always based on human limitation. The essential point is not to be conditioned by any 'veiw'. The view is as vast as the sky, how can it be so if it is limited by a model or a description that is based on causes and conditions?


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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
    #5636945 -

Do away with all descriptions and models!

Tall order Sinbad. I'm not able. I need to work within the most expansive discriptions and models I can muster right now. Maybe someday down the road but not today. I have to start where I am. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
    #5637009 -

You are operating on models as well man. You base your views on the words of others at some point as well. Wake up.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5637681 -

Words are never the basis of a view that goes beyond concepts. Words are like a finger pointing to the sky, never mistake the finger pointing for the sky itself. Wake Up.

The castaneda books are all about exchanging one description for another. But that is like exchanign a small cage for a bigger one. We must be free from all cages.

Edited by Sinbad (05/16/06 04:14 PM)

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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5637760 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
You are operating on models as well man. You base your views on the words of others at some point as well.



--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Icelander]
    #5637791 -

Who says you have to operate on a model? Any model, in the end is just a limitation that imprisons you. I understand that we need to learn to fly in the cage first, in order to be able to fly outside of the bcage, and into the wild. But let go of all models is almost always taught as the way to discover the meaning of words and descriptions. Letting go of all your assumptions and expectations is always the most direct way of doing this. Its could be called "Stopping the world". I always belived that was symbolic for letting go of all limiting descriptions, judgements and concepts.


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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
    #5637845 -

Like I said, it's too speculative for me. I don't see you doing it or anyone else I know. I do know people who have expanded their models and I feel in my own way I have too. Maybe I'm just too primitive for what you're talking about. I'm not interested in that concept anymore and don't think I haven't considered the idea for many years. I can shelve it until further conditions warrant its use.

Stopping the world is IMO is the trading in of one model for the potential of a multi-verse of models.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
    #5637869 -

"The castaneda books are all about exchanging one description for another. But that is like exchanign a small cage for a bigger one. We must be free from all cages."

You need to read the books well...or not, but the goal of the warrior is freedom. Your ego is showing here. The Buddhist way is too dogmatic for me that is why I chose shamanic philosophies. To say you do not use models is naive....the Buddhist way provides a clear template. To think your truth extends beyond the self makes it clear that you are not understanding of even your own path at this time. As long as your goal is baseless criticism I will not respond...I feel that injured ego are your motivator here.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Icelander]
    #5637877 -

What did you think all of the stuff on erasing personal histroy was about then, and how it was explained that you needed to do this before you could stop the world. I can quote some castaneda if you like?


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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5637926 -

Of course, i agree. I never said i was free of all models, or that Buddhism didnt employ the use of such roadmaps, but what im saying, is that eventually, all of these things need to be abandoned, whatever path/map you might be walking. If you need to cross a river, you require a boat to get to the other side, but once u r there, u no longer need the boat, it is the same with any model or description one might be using. Castaneda mentioned many times that a man of knowledge  should erase his personal history, that means shedding our identification with the concepts that form our descriptions of reality. He was pointing the way to insight, using the tonal and nagual symbolism as examples of (restuarant scene) "within concept" and "beyond concept". This is only my interpretaion of course, but ot seems to fit.

FYI i just finished reading Journey To Ixtlan for the second time. Its a great read! :thumbup:


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Edited by Sinbad (05/16/06 05:16 PM)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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