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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
#5637942 - 05/16/06 03:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Erasing personal histroy means to lose all emotional attachments to ones actions. I feel it is very important to the path, and after losing personal importance it is the most important part of the path. Why do you think that I have studied and engaged certain Buddhist practices....to lose attachments. I often apply other disciplines to augment my own. Without losing our attachments to our actions and self image one can never be truly dynamic. My summary of course was JUST a summary...not complete.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Cherk
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
#5637955 - 05/16/06 03:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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The purpose of spirituality and religion is liberation. There are no cages. What good is getting out of a cage if all you do once you're out is to look back in? The different forms of spirituality/religion come from the fact that we are all individuals working with our own karma. If someone has found a system that works for them that allows them to live the life they want to live, what is the point of debate? You cannot control time.
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
#5637968 - 05/16/06 03:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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"Of course, i agree. I never said i was free of all models, or that Buddhism didnt employ the use of such roadmaps, but what im saying, is that eventually, all of these things need to be abandoned, whatever path/map you might be walking. If you need to cross a river, you require a boat to get to the other side, but once u r there, u no longer need the boat, it is the same with any model or description one might be using. Castaneda mentioned many times that a man of knowledge should erase his personal history, that means shedding our identification with the concepts that form our descriptions of reality. He was pointing the way to insight, using the tonal and nagual symbolism as examples of (restuarant scene) "within concept" and "beyond concept". This is only my interpretaion of course, but ot seems to fit."
My goal is different from yours. I aspire to gain maximum control over my reality as possible...ensuring my personal freedom to the maximum degree. I have no interest in life after death or acheiving peace of mind. 8 years of being diligently on my path has brought me much peace of mind....but it is a requirement of the path....not the end result. That is why the book addresses the subject of sorcery...it is about the training of a diablero. I must say that erasing personal power, dreaming, and stalking were not part of erasing personal history. They are techniques for working with energy. They were considered an efficient means to do this...not philosophically based ideas, but purely practical methods. If someone taught me a useful skill I would not forget it because I need to erase personal history. Practical matters are dealt with by practical means.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Cherk]
#5637974 - 05/16/06 03:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nagualism is a magical practice...not a religion.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
#5637981 - 05/16/06 03:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Oh yes have you read the other books? Ixtlan was just one aspect of the teaching. Ixtlan addressed personal power.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
#5637982 - 05/16/06 03:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sinbad said: What did you think all of the stuff on erasing personal histroy was about then, and how it was explained that you needed to do this before you could stop the world. I can quote some castaneda if you like?
Erasing personal history? Yes please quote them and lets discuss this.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Cherk
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5638076 - 05/16/06 03:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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We are religion.
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Cherk]
#5638098 - 05/16/06 03:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well, I have been discussing a spiritual practice...not a religion. Religion means dogma....a practice eliminates dogma.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Sinbad
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Icelander]
#5638102 - 05/16/06 03:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You want me to quote the whole chapter on it? Or just the parts i think are relevant?
Ill quote these litte parts for you, as a taster :
"Little by littele you must create a fog around yourslelf; you must erase everything around you until nothing can be taken for granted, until nothing is any longer for sure, or real" Chapter 2 Page31 Journey To Ixtlan.
"Lies are lies only if you have personal history" - Same page
"From now on you must simply show people whatever you care to show them, but without ever telling exactly how uve done it" - page 33
"Take yourself, for instance. Right now you dont know whether you are comming or going. And that is do, becuase i have erased my personal history. I have little by little created a fog around me and my life. And now nobody knows for sure who i am and what i do." - Page 30, same book
The last quote sounded alot like how tibetan yogi's renounce attachments when they go into retreat in the caves to cultivate there practice.
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
#5638134 - 05/16/06 03:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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There are many similarities in certain aspects of this practice and Tibetan practice. They have divergent goals for this practice however. The end result are different animals completely while the path does go a similar general direction.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Sinbad
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5638154 - 05/16/06 03:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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But Tibetan Buddhist practices are pretty much based upon Bon Shamanism, the pre-buddhst shamanic tradition of Tibet, so i agree, there are similarities in that respect. I just really feel after reading that book, that the goal isnt so different, its just only pointed to in subtle ways, as i feel that much of the book was deeply sybolic in its expression. But that is of course just my humble opinion.
But no-one should listen to me. I still find hidden symbolism in old Sting tracks,
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
#5638174 - 05/16/06 04:04 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dude... Sting is Harkonnen swine.
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
#5638185 - 05/16/06 04:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Shamanism is a magical practice that views the self as an aspect of the universe. You may have noticed that they seem concerned with "evil spirits". that is because everything...even divergent aspects of self are viewed as being outside the self. Western magical traditions see the Universe as an aspect of self instead of the other way around. In view of the fact that Buddhism grew out of shamanic tradition, it is no surprise that eastern philosophies focus on minimizing the ego while western philosophies indulge it.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Huehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5638196 - 05/16/06 04:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You support House Atreides I assume.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
#5638218 - 05/16/06 04:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sinbad said: You want me to quote the whole chapter on it? Or just the parts i think are relevant?
Ill quote these litte parts for you, as a taster :
"Little by littele you must create a fog around yourslelf; you must erase everything around you until nothing can be taken for granted, until nothing is any longer for sure, or real" Chapter 2 Page31 Journey To Ixtlan.
"Lies are lies only if you have personal history" - Same page
"From now on you must simply show people whatever you care to show them, but without ever telling exactly how uve done it" - page 33
"Take yourself, for instance. Right now you dont know whether you are comming or going. And that is do, becuase i have erased my personal history. I have little by little created a fog around me and my life. And now nobody knows for sure who i am and what i do." - Page 30, same book
The last quote sounded alot like how tibetan yogi's renounce attachments when they go into retreat in the caves to cultivate there practice.
I'm familiar with these quotes. I'm inclined more along the lines of what Hue said. Although Don Juan seemed to have erased personal history he still modeled the ideas and methods of the new toltec seers . He says this many times in several books.
If you are able to find a path to no model then I suggest you go for it. I will work with what I have. Remember I'm an old man and I don't have much time left. You young whippersnapper. I hope you make it all the way to wherever you're headed.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Sinbad
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5638266 - 05/16/06 04:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Indeed. The nature of the indivduals vision of this universe, in both Buddhism and Shamanism is taken to be a manfestation of the inidividuals being energy.Hence why u can influence your vision with awareness.
Taoism speaks of energy and the world being a reflection of our internal energy system in the same way. Tibetan cosmology, which arose directly out of Bon shamanism deals with this very same principle. I agree that all traditions have an esoteric aspect that deals with these principles of the illusory nature of reality, in realtion to an indivudals understanding.
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Sinbad
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Posts: 2,571
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Icelander]
#5638285 - 05/16/06 04:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Sinbad said: You want me to quote the whole chapter on it? Or just the parts i think are relevant?
Ill quote these little parts for you, as a taster :
"Little by little you must create a fog around yourself; you must erase everything around you until nothing can be taken for granted, until nothing is any longer for sure, or real" Chapter 2 Page31 Journey To Ixtlan.
"Lies are lies only if you have personal history" - Same page
"From now on you must simply show people whatever you care to show them, but without ever telling exactly how uve done it" - page 33
"Take yourself, for instance. Right now you don't know whether you are coming or going. And that is do, because i have erased my personal history. I have little by little created a fog around me and my life. And now nobody knows for sure who i am and what i do." - Page 30, same book
The last quote sounded alot like how Tibetan yogi's renounce attachments when they go into retreat in the caves to cultivate there practice.
I'm familiar with these quotes. I'm inclined more along the lines of what Hue said. Although Don Juan seemed to have erased personal history he still modeled the ideas and methods of the new toltec seers . He says this many times in several books.
If you are able to find a path to no model then I suggest you go for it. I will work with what I have. Remember I'm an old man and I don't have much time left. You young whippersnapper. I hope you make it all the way to wherever you're headed.
Age should never be used as an excuse. Death is always stalking us. Death comes without warning, soon this body will be a corpse, who knows how long i will live for.
Its a myth that wisdom always comes with age. I'm currently on a path with a well defined model, I'm just saying that in every tradition, there is almost always an esoteric aspect that deals with the nature of the individual in relation to universal principles of body, energy and mind. Which leads to discovering our state of awareness or knowledge, beyond our ordinary conceptions of consensus "reality".
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EquilibriuM
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
#5638293 - 05/16/06 04:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think don Juan used his old age as a way of tricking Carlos.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Icelander
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Sinbad]
#5638337 - 05/16/06 04:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Age should never be used as an excuse. Damn! You sound like Hue who often takes my jokes seriously.
Which leads to discovering our state of awareness or knowledge, beyond our ordinary conceptions of consensus "reality".
This I agree with. Maybe I misunderstood you.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dblaney
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Re: The Manipulation of Reality Through Mastering Awareness [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5638380 - 05/16/06 04:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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When dealing with the sense of personal importance, what techniques do you think are effective? And also what book in the Castaneda series do you think discusses this in the most depth?
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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