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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Why is LSD so hard to make?
    #5547496 -

I've had conversations with people where they tell me someone they know is cooking LSD. I try to explain that it requires a degree in chemistry, thousands of dollars in lab equipment, and chemicals closely watched by the government. They don't believe me though, because I don't know anything specific.

Edited by PinballWizard (04/23/06 02:01 PM)

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: PinballWizard]
    #5547526 -

people are stupid  :rolleyes:


its not that its hard to make.. im thinking
if an advanced chemist has the right set up and supplies needed
he or she provided they have a knowledge of LSD
could make the drug

but then again theres alot of stupid people in the world

not that i know of anybody 'making lsd' but
i read alot  :stoned:


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Been you to have any spike, man?.

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: RandomHero]
    #5547547 -

Yea, chemistry degree(or being taught by someone with one),chemicals and equipment about $1000+(depending on what tek you use and how/where you get your stuff). I heard that the chems and equipment are harder to get in US. But you'd be amazed byt the stuff you can find with a little knowledge and a lot of research. A home chemist could definately do it. Not that I'd know!
:P


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"Worse?? Or Better?!"

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: PinballWizard]
    #5547567 -

it takes time and getting the precursors is next to impossible unless you know some russian mafia or something.


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Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit!

afoaf said:
Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Jim]
    #5548619 -

Unless I am wrong, the original precurser of LSD comes from ergot fungus, and I believe it is possible to cultivate it. I'd like to see a tek for making LSD, Dr J... I've never seen any beyond bullshit morning glory extractions and related junk... I wonder how they do it.


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eat poop

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: fatalerror]
    #5548625 -

there are tons of different types of ergot... two hundred and something different clavis... from what I understand it would be possible to cultivate.


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Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit!

afoaf said:
Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Jim]
    #5549499 -

There used to be teks on the hive about cultivating ergot. LSD still isn't all that hard to make compared to some of the pharmaceticals being made today.

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: twiggedoubt]
    #5549779 -

What wouldn't I give for a ketamine tek that was 'only' as hard as an LSD tek!!!
LOL


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"Worse?? Or Better?!"

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: PinballWizard]
    #5550030 -

LSD is easier to make than many people think it is, but it is indeed very difficult.

The reason it's so hard is multi-faceted. Firstly, chemistry is complicated. I love chem, and I learn fast... but I'm still a total n00b. The most complicated thing I've ever synthesized is artificial flavoring. LSD is at least 5 times as challenging as that.

Secondly, it's blatantly illegal. The precursors to create it are very hard to get. You need to make friends in very shady places to obtain ergotamine tartrate, for example.

Thirdly, lab equipment is increasingly being taken out of the reach of the average person. The DEA is gleefully nudging toward making chemistry itself illegal. Their draconian laws are so hard to enforce that the only way they can fight a war on drugs is by taking the whole fucking science of chemistry down with them. That's a two-edged sword, too. It hurts the drug chemists, yes. But mostly it just does a lot MORE harm to innocents that the government doesn't give two shits about.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Konnrade]
    #5550292 -

> LSD is easier to make than many people think it is, but it is indeed very difficult.

So which is it, easy or hard?  :grin:

> The most complicated thing I've ever synthesized is artificial flavoring. LSD is at least 5 times as challenging as that.

LSD is much more difficult to synth than a simple ester (artificial flavor).  Esters are trivial to produce, simply mix an alcohol and an acid.  (There are other methods, such as nucleophilic displacement of alkyl halides with carboxylic acid salts, etc.)

> The precursors to create it are very hard to get.

Ding!  We have a winner.  Correct!  Not only difficult to get, but rarely used for anything else, and watched like a hawk.  Even if somebody manages to get the precursors, the chance of getting a not-so-friendly visit is very real.

> lab equipment is increasingly being taken out of the reach of the average person

Also correct!  Not only is it getting more difficult to get lab equipment, but the LSD synths really do require a lab, not a kitchen cabinet.  Granted, I have seen some pictures of ghetto LSD labs, but never knew if these were legit or some kind of DEA propaganda BS.  I know that I couldn't do the synth ghetto style, but I never was very good at using a hardware store to funish my chem lab.  Too much pride, and since I never did anything illegal, not enough fear, I suppose.

The chemistry is difficult, but not impossible.  On a scale of 1 to 10, I would give it a solid 8.  Some of the newer methods are a bit easier, maybe down around the 7 range.  For reference, extracting from a plant is down around a 1.5, meth is around a 2.5, and mdma would be around a 5 in relative difficulty (to me).  W_S can probably give a better estimate than I... he is much better at chemistry.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Seuss]
    #5550411 -

From what I understand, LSD synthesis would not be considered particularly difficult for a professional chemist with a well equipped lab. The main difficulties (excluding the huge logistical difficulties faced when this is done illicitly) are:
a)There are often many steps in the synthesis (which generally means low yields).
b)The product and intermediates are unstable. Many (or all) of the steps have to be carried out under anhydrous and inert atmosphere (ie. totally dry, with nitrogen or argon piped into the system). At least one of the steps needs to be performed under specific lighting conditions.


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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #5550486 -

The major problem would probably be securing the precursors.

While the equipment would be expensive, I would imagine that it's relatively cheap and common for a "normal" chemistry lab.

Keep in mind this chemical was first synthesized in 1938. There have probably been enough technilogical advances since then to make the synthesis much easier.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: badchad]
    #5550507 -

Is there an online pictorial or something? :laugh:
I'm just interested in seeing whats involved, and how difficult such a nuts procedure is. 

Where does all the acid come from? Do you think legitimate labs are used on the low down? Do gangs make it or just hardcore chemistry buffs.

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Feelers]
    #5550529 -

Not sure of your resources, however I'm sure Hoffman published his synthesis in a peer-reviewed journal. You would need a University library to find the original article.

I'm sure some of the other people on these boards (whom know far more chemistry then I) would be of more help.

EDIT: erowid has the TIKHAL synthesis of LSD although it appears to have been written with some brevity (although I can't comment much on that).


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

Edited by badchad (04/24/06 09:31 AM)

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Feelers]
    #5550566 -

> Where does all the acid come from?

My understanding, which is not always correct, is that there are only a few people across the world that produce it. They make a lot (pounds) at a time, but only every once in a while (every few years).

The original procedure used by Hoffman is very outdated. Here is a newer method: http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal26.shtml


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Seuss]
    #5550574 -

What's also annoying is that MDMA is a much easier synthesis than LSD, but is nonetheless just as hard to actually make, because the drug is of a high priority to the DEA. So... the legal resistance is a lot more rabid for those who try to get all the ingredients and equipment needed to make it.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Seuss]
    #5550581 -

The main chemist got busted, thus the reason for an increase in LSD price per gram of crystal and per sheet. He got life in prison recently,
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/states/newsrel/sanfran112403.html

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: PinballWizard]
    #5550620 -

-it requires a degree in chemistry false
-thousands of dollars in lab equipment false
-chemicals closely watched by the government true

Like meth, LSD can be made by an amateur able to exactly carry out instructions on a xeroxed recipy.

Some TEKs are so simple you could teach a teenager to do it in an hour.


1...Pour SOLVENT into flask
2...Chill flask in the freezer
3...Add CHEM A and shake
4...Add CHEM B and leave in freezer for two hours
5...Add CHEM C and let come to room temperature
6...Evaporate SOLVENT in the outdoors to yield a powder containing 50+% LSD


Skill level: responsible adult of reasonable intelligence

Lab equipment: Freezer, flask, scales.

SOLVENT = Acetonitrile (highly toxic)
CHEM A = Lysergic acid (watched chemical)
CHEM B = Trifluoroacetic anhydride (toxic corrosive)
CHEM C = Diethylamine (corrosive)

So all it boils down to having access to a working recipy and the right chems, because some TEKs are very simple. Look into methods of protein synthesis. Many of these techniques can be modified to yield a working LSD recipy.


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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Asante]
    #5550847 -

Admittedly, this is the opinion of a person who doesn't understand the process... but I think that most average people could learn to make LSD quite easily and quickly if they just had someone to serve a brief apprenticeship under.

It could take me years before I learn enough to know how to synthesize it on my own, but if Hoffman were to take me into a lab with him I could probably be making it on my own within a week (assuming of course the materials were available. They're really the most difficult part of the whole ordeal).

Oh, by the way... I stated that artifical flavors were the most complex synth I've done... I think that's wrong. In retrospect I think it was a synthesis of alum that started from aluminum cans and KOH. Still simple, but a bit harder than synthesizing artificial flavorings in high school, with truly horrid stoichiometry.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Asante]
    #5552556 -

Its a lot more than just the chemicals. If LSD were so easy to use how come they almost never bust labs, but more than 10 meth labs get busted everyday? You can use HBWS or MGS in a micro scale lab to obtain LSA and the rest of the chemicals and be obtained via China. You can probally get lysergic acid via china as well. Being an apprentice is one thing, but I know making lsd isn't as easy as making meth. That recipe, if it is true would mean that making LSD is easier than making meth, cause with meth you need to do an A/B extraction, react the three chemicals, heat, do an A/B extraction, evaporate. I'm not gonna say that it that method won't work, but if its so easy to make how come the market doesn't support this? I also remeber an easy way to make meth with vicks inhalers that was widely published.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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