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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: DadeMurphy]
#5557601 - 04/26/06 05:27 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Err...sorry if I offended.
No offense taken whatsoever! Please don't take this the wrong way.
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All I said was that you were simplifying things a bit and making it sound TOO easy. There's a tendancy to use a bit of hyperbole on these boards in order to argue a point.
Thats what I did with the simplified synth. Nobody in their right mind would use that as an actual "recipy", but anyone who reads this has access to the www where you no doubt can download exact procedures like this one a dozen times over.
EDIT: LOL even the Temple Of The Screaming Electron has the correct procedures in a rare instance of them not getting you killed
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It can lead to miscommunication or percieved rivalry when there is no offense intended.
No i'm a bit fed up with some inter-forum stuff I see across the internet, and the depressive atmosphere of discouragement that prevails. People smoke too much pot 
No offense taken, really. When I take offense I usually (over)react with a heavyhanded bitter PM rather than taking it in public 
Nobody in this thread or in the Bluelight personally offended me, but some posts fueled the fires of discouragement and thats unfortunate.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
Edited by Asante (04/26/06 05:30 AM)
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whiterasta
Day careobserver

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Asante]
#5557759 - 04/26/06 07:36 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Wiccan I do applaud your enthusiasm... However (and this isn't the "pot" talking) There is FAR more to the whole process than you describe. Were one to procure Lysergic acid or ET there are better and more efficient ways to convert these EXPENSIVE AND CLOSELY WATCHED CHEMICALS. A 50% yield is abyssmal and will barely recoup the investment in Chemicals( black market price)Lacking Chromatography the end product will be far dirtier than "tornado juice" and likely a filthy experience with a degree of ergot like sensations. Now you can call me a "stoned" negative nelly but were this a viable synth for a consumable product, If it were as easy as you make it out to be, there would be LOTS of lsd as there IS demand. What we instead see is High quality LSD being spread very thin (20mcg hits). Why do we not see lots of crap grade acid? Why aren't lil labs pumping out the 1-2g batches? I assure you those who do this work KNOW what does and does not work.One might be able to column the 50% contamination from the batch but not w/o MANY passes. It adds up to an uneconomical waste of chemicals and time at a 50% yield. Just my -.02cents WR
-------------------- To old for this place
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: whiterasta]
#5558392 - 04/26/06 11:57 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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It adds up to an uneconomical waste of chemicals and time at a 50% yield.
You misunderstand. The powder will contain over 50% LSD, but almost all lysergic acid in the reaction has in fact been converted to LSD, so the net result is a very high yield of LSD which, if unpurified, has up to 50% nonrelevant impurities which are NOT ergoloids.
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Lacking Chromatography the end product will be far dirtier than "tornado juice" and likely a filthy experience with a degree of ergot like sensations.
Not so, this depends entirely on the specific reaction you are using to make the LSD. If this procedure is followed to the letter it does not make a mess. Chromatography is not strictly needed, but if the chemist insists its not that hard a process too.
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were this a viable synth for a consumable product, If it were as easy as you make it out to be, there would be LOTS of lsd as there IS demand.
There IS lots of LSD  But the demand is far greater than that. And its a viable synth and if it is followed to the letter, just as the shulgin process, it will yield high quality LSD.
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What we instead see is High quality LSD being spread very thin (20mcg hits). Why do we not see lots of crap grade acid?
How do we know a 20mcg blotter wasnt laid with 100mcg of poor quality LSD? And perhaps poor quality LSD is made, and subjected to purification processes.
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Why aren't lil labs pumping out the 1-2g batches?
Who says they aren't? For every big fish theres 100 sardines.
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I assure you those who do this work KNOW what does and does not work.
Fortunately nobody can have a full overview of what goes on, so LSD cannot be driven into extinction.
The first LSD in Holland in the 1960s was made on a tiny scale by a chem enthusiast. He had heard of Yag? which caught his interest, then he heard that LSD = Lysergic Acid Diethyamide, and with that chemical name as a starting point he studied up, botched a bit here and there, and made LSD in a small home lab without any "connections", and sold it to friends as "Yag?".
What would anyone know of a 1 gram lab?
A 1 gram lab puts out a mere 10 sheets of 1000 blotters. With demand being what it is, its gone before you can say Lysergic. There are many many kinds of blotter floating around, including lots of perfed and unperfed white blotter. You'd never notice the output of a one-gram lab, because its trivial if you look at demand.
With people taking tenstrips and all a literal busload of hippies will easily take care of a 100-sheet on a weekend.
The psychedelic movement hasn't got a culture of making LSD, it has a culture of saying it can't be done Take mushrooms. They were treasured and revered as a psychedelic more valuable than LSD. You went to Mexico to find a curandero to experience them. Then some intrepid people cultivated them. Now "everybody" cultivates them, many noobs pick their first trip off their own PF Cake.
DMT, Mescaline, Salvinorin.. many people extract them.
LSD is harder, but once people have a sense that it can be done, it will be done.
Take no offense, please.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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AuroricDistortions
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Registered: 10/06/03
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Asante]
#5558951 - 04/26/06 02:49 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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If only now were still the 1960s. Why I'd use my methedrine profits (easy before ephedrine restrictions) to buy a shitload of pure Lysergic acid, follow procedure outlined by W_S, spread the love half for free half for profit, use those profits to catalyst greatest band yet
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AuroricDistortions
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Registered: 10/06/03
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Loc: Polar Springs
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Also, I highly doubt anyone is making LSD in the US. With the government the way it is and all the money and power of the US out to destroy drugs outside of their profit circle.
They = Pharmacuticals, Legal drug pushers, Religion in gov't, all gov't agencies paid to 'fight' drugs, organized crime profiting off drug prohibition, and probably more Us = We the People The Duplicity of the War on Drugs excellent shitty dope making me rant off topic
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Nephlyte
Misfortunate One


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Quote:
AuroricDistortions said: Also, I highly doubt anyone is making LSD in the US. With the government the way it is and all the money and power of the US out to destroy drugs outside of their profit circle.
Well, this is an oversimplification of prohibition. Just because things are watched and they are illegal, they don't go away. If people want it, someone is going to produce it. Even if its in a heavily restricted market.
"with the government the way it is" C'mon, what way is it that it wasn't 10 years ago(on drugs, that is. lets not turn this into a politics conversation). Every president since LSD was made illegal has professed how horrible drugs are and pushed forward agendas to spend more money on the problem, but there has been no decline in drug use.
So to say that all of a sudden, the way things are now, they have found a way to stop LSD production in the US is silly.
-------------------- "To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana
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AuroricDistortions
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Registered: 10/06/03
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Nephlyte]
#5559681 - 04/26/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I was off on an fuzzy rant, I meant that government has been increasing the war on drugs imo, and making L in the US is far riskier than other countries. Additionally, the precursors must be obtained elsewhere, so logically a chemist would go outside of the US. No matter how bad the laws get, LSD can be made anywhere, but very few would be crazy and smart enough to do it in the US without getting caught. I was comparing now with 1950s-60s, which, from what I've heard, was a lot safer for drugs. Though the peak of anti-LSD war was probably late 1980s. All I really know about is today's scene, and with all the gov't surveillance, and inequality and failure of the justice system, being a drug user is scary.
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DadeMurphy
H4x0r

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There are contradictory trends nowadays (as always) in respect to drugs, prohibition, psychedelics etc. Although much of what has been happening in the past 10 years has been ugly and repressive, some of the recent developments have been positive. It seems that parts of the scientific community are slowly starting to come around again on psychedelics and their potential uses. I've seen quite a few "pro" psychedelic articles in 'semi-scientific' mags such as new scientist lately, and even in the traditional mainstream press (newspapers etc.). Also some policy commitees and lobby groups are effectively arguing the case for drug policy reform (KCBA, Canadian Senate Commitees, Scottish parliament etc.) In spite of prohibitionist efforts, acid is plenty available most places, along with mushrooms and plethora of other psychedelics. Righteousness may yet prevail!
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twiggedoubt
twigburst


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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: DadeMurphy]
#5560822 - 04/26/06 10:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm sorry, but a lot of those people knew what they were talking and I posted this there (I had to make it a harm reduction question or else it woulda got deleted) I'll believe them over you, a few of those people have degrees in chemistry and that tek sounds like bs anyway. If that tek was that easy, LSD would be much more prevalent, as stated.
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: twiggedoubt]
#5561283 - 04/27/06 12:30 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Its not well known and with all the people like you saying "well I dont really know anything about it, but it sounds like crap because other people would already be doing it" whens it supposed to start happening. Maybe in 10 years we will see more people using that tek, and LSD IS pretty damn prevalent. Not everyone has it, but god damn I pick up 10 sheets and its GONE, to a dozen people, who take it for themselves and friends and its gone in a few weeks, or stored away for a good amount of time. This takes alot of acid off the streets and only in the hands of a few, but then theres another 10 sheets a few weeks later if you need it, and I know theres damn well more then 10 sheets if I asked for them...and look at the recent prints thread, tons of people getting sheets and sheets and gels and dots and liquid all the time, and thats only a tiny fraction of whats being spread around. If you think that the US isnt making acid, and in large amounts...well I disagree..
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resin
Ghetto Monster


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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: scatmanrav]
#5561327 - 04/27/06 12:42 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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^^^ShitShit, WTF? nigga I hate you, wrongness. You got sheets around like I got weed seeds
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA



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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: resin]
#5561427 - 04/27/06 01:23 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah, there are plenty of people (like myself) who haven't had acid and can't seem to find it. But we just need to find the right connections ourselves in order to be able to purchase it.
There's plenty of the stuff out there, you just need to network with the people who have access.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: twiggedoubt]
#5561621 - 04/27/06 03:16 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'm sorry, but a lot of those people knew what they were talking and I posted this there. I'll believe them over you, a few of those people have degrees in chemistry and that tek sounds like bs anyway.
I think you have problems reading the replies to the thread you started. They are not saying that the synthetic pathway is incorrect, but that it contains too little information to reproduce the results successfully.
And it is like that.
Like I posted before, this is the more elaborate version:
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Synthesis of LSD using Trifluoracetic anhydride . Step I. Use Yellow light . 5.36 g of d-lysergic acid are suspended in 125 ml of acetonitrile and the suspension cooled to about -20 C in a bath of acetone cooled with dry ice. To the suspension is added a cold (-20 C) solution of 8.82 g of trifluoroacetic anhydride in 75 ml of acetonitrile. The mixture is allowed to stand at -20 C for about 1.5 hours during which the suspended material dissolves, and the d-lysergic acid is converted to the mixed anhydride of lysergic and trifluoroacetic acids. The mixed anhydride can be separated in the form of an oil by evaporating the solvent in vacuo at a temperature below 0 C, but this is not necessary. Everything must be kept anhydrous. . Step II. Use Yellow light . The solution of mixed anhydrides in acetonitrile from Step I is added to 150 ml of a second solution of acetonitrile containing 7.6 g of diethylamine. The mixture is held in the dark at room temperature for about 2 hours. The acetonitrile is evaporated in vacuo, leaving a residue of LSD-25 plus other impurities. . The residue is dissolved in 150 ml of chloroform and 20 ml of ice water. The chloroform layer is removed and the aqueous layer is extracted with several portions of chloroform. The chloroform portions are combined and in turn washed with four 50 ml portions of ice-cold water. The chloroform solution is then dried over anhydrous Na2SO4 and evaporated in vacuo. . Source: Psychedelic Guide to the Preparation of the Eucharist
People were not "calling out bullshit" but rather they said there was not enough information there to depend on, and that it was unwise to embark on such an endeavor with so little information.
I think this bluelighter said it best:
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This method was posted on theshroomery during a discussion about how easy/difficult it would be to make lsd, it wasn't meant as a tek for anyone to use and there is more info about the by products in following posts. So your friend is just being stupid.
"your friend" being the hypothetical person who'd try to synth LSD without chemical knowledge using a general outline of a synthesis without specifics.
The Trifluoroacetic anhydride pathway (1956) is one of the processes that fueled the psychedelic revolution of the 1960s. It is very real.
If you trust your Bluelight friends over me, PM them the URL of this thread and *then* ask their opinion.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
If they need a hand (which they do not, they tend to know their shit) the basic reaction is this:
R-COOH + CF3COOOCCF3 --> R-COOOCCF3 + CF3COOH R-COOOCCF3 + HN(CH2CH3)2 --> R-CO-N(CH2CH3)2 + CF3COOH
Overall pathway:
R-COOH + CF3COOOCCF3 --> + 3 HN(CH2CH3)2 --> R-CO-N(CH2CH3)2 + 2 CF3COOH.HN(CH2CH3)2
How this reaction mops up moisture:
CF3COOOCCF3 + H20 --> 2 CF3COOH
so you will want to use a slight excess of trifluoroacetic anhydride, especially if you are unwise enough to use a hydrated form of lysergic acid. To remedy this you'll have to slightly increase the molarity of the diethylamine too (because more of the salt will be formed) and because you definitely don't want an excess of lysergic acid. This will produce a true byproduct:
CF3COOOCCF3 + 2 HN(CH2CH3)2 --> CF3CO-N(CH2CH3)2 + CF3COOH.HN(CH2CH3)2
So, byproducts of this reaction are for the most part the diethylamine salt of trifluoroacetic acid and for a minor part N,N-diethyltrifluoroacetamide, both are very watersoluble, thus easily removed through the chloroform wash which is not strictly necessary (but good practice) because they are not significantly toxic in the microgram doses they will be present in typical LSD doses.
The problem with the reaction is that you have to keep the reaction anhydrous. The Lysergic acid can easily be dried in a desiccator over sulfuric acid and acetonitrile can often be bought anhydrous. The trouble would be procuring anhydrous diethylamide which might raise some eyebrows. A solution might be to distil your own (low boiling point anyway) from regular diethylamide mixed with a fierce nonvolatile desiccant. Lets say by dissolving sodium metal in glycerin and react/desiccate diethylamine or better its dried HCl salt with the sodium alkoxide that ensues, then distilling the mess that ensues. For the love of OTC-ness you can purify the DEET from mosquito repellant, diethyl toluamide, and shove this in dried glycerin (or ethylene glycol antifreeze if you're at it LOL) in which lye (sodium hydroxide) is dissolved, warming this goop will generate anhydrous diethylamine gas which can be easily condensed.
I'm sorry for the mumbo jumbo but it spares those in the know the need to consider the reaction in depth.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
Edited by Asante (04/27/06 05:18 AM)
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Asante]
#5561776 - 04/27/06 05:37 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Heck, for the fun of OTC-ness:
You could isolate Lysergic acid amides from ergot, seeds or pills with methods found online, turn them into Lysergic acid lithium salt using lithium carbonate (used in enameling stuff) heated to form lithium hydroxide (or by dissolving the lithium from Li-batteries in distilled water), this under an inert propane/natural gas atmosphere. Then desiccate it over concentrated sulfuric acid (which you ofcourse got from boiling battery acid ) and dissolving it into anhydrous ether (made from dropping alcohol in hot sulfuric acid and desiccated with let's say sodium from street lights )
If you heat plaster of paris it first desiccates and at higher temperature evolves sulfur trioxide. This will, when sufficiently carefully put in anhydrous ether, form a SO3.O(CH2CH3)2 adduct which can be reacted with the lithium lysergate. If you use the diethylamine from the above post on that, LSD ensues.
Presto: OTC LSD.
Please note that it takes really ADVANCED chemistry to process this outline into something that actually works. Now this DOES take a scientifically well-endowed person, to make THIS work you really need someone able and committed to the cause. But once you have that, LSD can be made without use of anything unavailable to the general public.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
Edited by Asante (04/27/06 05:50 AM)
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Radioethiopia
Stranger and Stranger


Registered: 02/26/06
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Asante]
#5562589 - 04/27/06 12:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you!
Not saying I would ever do such things, just...thanks.
-------------------- happy bear eats the family.
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QuantumMeltdown
Space Monkey



Registered: 10/31/01
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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: Asante]
#5564670 - 04/27/06 09:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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The only thing I have to say about making LSD is that most the time you can just find the shit easier and cheaper then to try to make it? For personal use It would be more reasonable to find a legit source of good stuff and maybe stock up if need be? With the amount of dedication it takes to learn chemistry get equipment regents and all that jazz you could have just found a hook up way more easier.
-------------------- -QuantumMeltdown Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself. -Mark Twain "The time has come the walrus said, little oysters hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome Be lonesome and you will be free Live a lie and you will live to regret it That's what livin' is to me That's what livin' is to me" Jimmy Buffett
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ThreePieceSuit
disastrophe


Registered: 04/26/06
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After reading this whole thread for the last half hour, I've got my opinion : It's true that you could just buy it, but you have to take into account that not every town or neighbourhood is gonna have piles of acid lying around. I'm stumped on shrooms as we speak, and as far as I'm concerned, acid is a pipe dream for my little town. Which isn't to say I couldn't get it if I wanted, it's just I couldn't with ease. I have a lot of respect for anyone who would decide to make their own rather than just buy it. Hallucinogens may be a long way from extinction, but LSD might not be if this trend of hoping for someone else to make it is continued. If you have the means to do it, I say you owe it to the world to manufacture. I personally intend to spore many many mushies and never harvest. Power to the People, and peace and goodnight to everyone. Good reading, this, thanks guys and gals.
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I'm so lucrative, even my birthday suit is in three pieces.
Edited by ThreePieceSuit (04/27/06 10:27 PM)
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chaospilot
Ming I

Registered: 06/29/05
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i havent read the whole thread, partialy because i have to go to sleep really soon, but i figured this story would be interesting....
Someguy: "Hey man, do you want some LSD?"
Me:"Hell yeah, do you have any?"
someguy: "not on me, but i could make some. All i need is the Anarchist Cookbook, and i can make it. I can make LSD, er well, not LSD, but Acid."
Me: "your a dumbfuck" the end.
that guy pissed me off, giving my hopes up like that. I wouldnt buy anything from that guy. Its amazing how people around my area think that LSD and Acid are two different things...
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stemmer
Stranger


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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: chaospilot]
#5565617 - 04/28/06 01:28 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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You need to know you can make lsd before you even think about making some.
My guess is that no one at this site has ever or will ever make LSD.
For a serious chemist, synthesizing lsd is not too hard. You just need the right precursor chemicals, some serious equipment, and alot of know-how.
There is no "real" recipe for lsd out there that caters to those who have no capability to read the few true synethises or have NO know-how to produce the drug for that matter......
Edited by stemmer (04/28/06 01:30 AM)
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA



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Re: Why is LSD so hard to make? [Re: stemmer]
#5565660 - 04/28/06 01:47 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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It would be possible for someone who knew how to make LSD to write an "idiot's guide" to making it, but it would also be irresponsible. That's why no mature and right-thinking chemist would do it.
It's not that a person couldn't just follow a predefined procedure to make it, it's that doing so would be hazardous and if they made a mistake they would not posess the necessary education to know what they've just done. They could accidentally wind up with a hazardous chemical laid to blotter. Or, they could just blow their damn selves up. Yes, I think that is possible.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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